Alternative to mage ilvl 34 Artifact theorycrafting

[Philippos]

So I'm new to the 20s twinking community and have found that most mages use the ilvl 34 Artifact weapon, but I'm wondering if I've found an alternative. The total stats of Felo'melorn & OH is 36 int (including OH enchant) + 9 stam + 7 haste 4 mastery 1 crit (I don't have an ilvl 34 one so this is from someone's armory), before scailing in BGs. The Staff of the Great Reptile (ez drop from King Dred from Drak'Tharon Keep), has 28 int + 9 stam + 10 haste + 13 verse. But, if you keep the legion intro quest "To Be Prepared", the food buff of 5 or 6 verse from that CAN be brought into BGs and PERSISTS through death (tested just now)! Assuming when using Felo'melorn you won't be using a food buff (bc regular food buffs disappear after you die), using the Great Reptile is a difference of [-8 int, -4 mastery, -1 crit, +3 haste, +19 verse]. Even using a PVE stat weight (from noxxic), discounting the value of vers dmg reduction & haste helping sheep casts, the Staff of Great Reptile wins out, and esp so if you are stacking vers.

I feel like even if the Great Reptile is slightly inferior somehow due to BG scaling (which I have no idea how that works), it's way easier to get and a great alternative for ppl who are trying to save some time. I'd love to be proven wrong for sure since I've only got 15 days left in my sub so I'll get off my lazy ass and farm artifact relics if I'm wrong .

 

[Warglave]

I think the caster weapons are all just stat sticks, so if you can "make up" for whatever stats you sacrifice then GG.

INT is hard to salvage losing, however... if you can keep it minimum then adding preferred secondary stats would be OK.

edit- also worth noting, you're only gaining like 2 ilvl at best from BoE relics. Just doing quests will get you damn close.

 

[Philippos]

INT is hard to salvage losing, however... if you can keep it minimum then adding preferred secondary stats would be OK.

edit- also worth noting, you're only gaining like 2 ilvl at best from BoE relics. Just doing quests will get you damn close.

I totally agree that INT is hard to make up for; for example if I want to sacrifice secondary stats to gem for it (3 int intead of 2/2 gems) then this alternative might not be worthy it. However, I don't think that 1 int = 2 secondary, and certainly not in the case of vers since it contributes to dmg reduc as well. I'd personally value them as 1 int = 1.5 vers maybe? I do like my tanky mage

But yes, a main selling point is def that the relics are not ez to farm!! That's why I'm slacking with this stat stick haha.

 

[Warglave]

That's why I'm slacking with this stat stick haha.

I was hoping the BoA staff scaled up to 29 with you in BG.... alas, it does not.

That would be close enough for me if some enchants could work that we normally cant apply due to level. Ah well. I agree vers is worth more than 1/2 ratio as well, so 2/2 int/vers are my choice of gem. I'm gonna get globaled... but it's ok.

 

[zazzyfraz]

I have personally seen/own:
ilvl28/ilvl27 zealot blade 22 int 6stam 7 vers
I28 orb of mistmantle 11 int 6 stam 7 vers (+6 int from enchant inside BG)

Both are vanilla boes.

33+6 int 12 stam 14 vers. Not sure if there would be better non artifact boes at least for a mage. There’s blade of wizardry but I don’t know how that proc works for a level 20 so I can’t comment further then just mentioning it. You say you used armory for someone’s i34 stats, well the offhand does scale up, it just doesn’t show on armory. Someone will need to post the stats of an i34 offhand to help further.



Sadly an i49 staff which you might run into a user of gives 61 int, 21 stam, 26secondary (according to armory)

 

[Warglave]

an i49 staff

That worries me less than the melee/ranged ones, 20 INT isnt too bad... that much weapon damage for melee/ranged is nuts.

 

[Philippos]

I have personally seen/own:
ilvl28/ilvl27 zealot blade 22 int 6stam 7 vers
I28 orb of mistmantle 11 int 6 stam 7 vers (+6 int from enchant inside BG)

Both are vanilla boes.

33+6 int 12 stam 14 vers. Not sure if there would be better non artifact boes at least for a mage. There’s blade of wizardry but I don’t know how that proc works for a level 20 so I can’t comment further then just mentioning it. You say you used armory for someone’s i34 stats, well the offhand does scale up, it just doesn’t show on armory. Someone will need to post the stats of an i34 offhand to help further.



Sadly an i49 staff which you might run into a user of gives 61 int, 21 stam, 26secondary (according to armory)

The vanilla combo is good to know! And if you haven't done the legion intro quest yet that gives you 20 vers matched up with an artifact.

But I'm afraid you are right, the OH does scale lol (silly me!). I've managed to find a Boomy's ilvl 33 staff off the armory and it has 37 int 13 stam 9 crit 7 mastery, and I'm guessing the mage version would be similar. In that case I think your combo works well, with a difference of [-4~5 int, -1 stam, -15~16 secondary stats (haste and mastery in mage's case), +20 verse], which I think is pretty close (maybe just bc I really like vers lol). I have to admit the staff of great reptile probably won't be worth it anymore, losing too much stam in particular. So I think I might go for your combo haha thx!
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That worries me less than the melee/ranged ones, 20 INT isnt too bad... that much weapon damage for melee/ranged is nuts.

Yeah the GFed 49 weapons are pretty crazy lol. I have a bunch of talasites tho hopefully they won't focus me

 

[Zerofoxtrot]

The vanilla combo is good to know! And if you haven't done the legion intro quest yet that gives you 20 vers matched up with an artifact.

But I'm afraid you are right, the OH does scale lol (silly me!). I've managed to find a Boomy's ilvl 33 staff off the armory and it has 37 int 13 stam 9 crit 7 mastery, and I'm guessing the mage version would be similar. In that case I think your combo works well, with a difference of [-4~5 int, -1 stam, -15~16 secondary stats (haste and mastery in mage's case), +20 verse], which I think is pretty close (maybe just bc I really like vers lol). I have to admit the staff of great reptile probably won't be worth it anymore, losing too much stam in particular. So I think I might go for your combo haha thx!
[doublepost=1610436914,1610436801][/doublepost]

Yeah the GFed 49 weapons are pretty crazy lol. I have a bunch of talasites tho hopefully they won't focus me

Epic Foamspittle has 19 vers at lvl 20... you could always start up some beach grinds again!

 

[zazzyfraz]

The vanilla combo is good to know! And if you haven't done the legion intro quest yet that gives you 20 vers matched up with an artifact.

But I'm afraid you are right, the OH does scale lol (silly me!). I've managed to find a Boomy's ilvl 33 staff off the armory and it has 37 int 13 stam 9 crit 7 mastery, and I'm guessing the mage version would be similar. In that case I think your combo works well, with a difference of [-4~5 int, -1 stam, -15~16 secondary stats (haste and mastery in mage's case), +20 verse], which I think is pretty close (maybe just bc I really like vers lol). I have to admit the staff of great reptile probably won't be worth it anymore, losing too much stam in particular. So I think I might go for your combo haha thx!

The boes may be hard to obtain. You’ll want those ilvls. Not sure if an ilvl 27 orb is the same as i28. Idk how most of the drops work at the moment with ilvl and looter’s level. I think i27 is an old drop that happened to scale to 20, and i28 are new drops.

The offhand is rarer on auction houses than the sword imo(I own 3 i27 swords, 1i28. Only 1 i28 offhand.)

the vers food that only is usable if you’re on the legion opener is pretty interesting since you said earlier that it works thru death.

My 19 epic foam is 28int 9stam 18 vers. I25. 20 is i26 though never seen one

 

[Childishgankino]

@Warglave really just said 20+ intellect is nothing compared to melee twinks with 49 weps... Again people always be talking that don’t even BG... +20 intellect is big time and should not be underplayed lol because who wouldn’t take 20 intellect (perspective basically 7 gems slots with +3 intellect) In addition, secondary stats do get slashed in BGs while main stats increase. Third, lvl 34 wep will provide a significant more intellect (+6 -10) in comparison to lvl 26 as well as provide mastery which is amazing for arcane.

 

[Warglave]

20 intellect is half a trinket proc.... yah it's a lot to have passively but can be overcome with decent gearing.

"it's not too bad" compared to weapon damage classes. THAT is what I said, you're just really nothing but a tool, eh?

 

[Philippos]

@Warglave In addition, secondary stats do get slashed in BGs while main stats increase. Third, lvl 34 wep will provide a significant more intellect (+6 -10) in comparison to lvl 26 as well as provide mastery which is amazing for arcane.

Thanks for this! Yeah I certainly notice that secondary stats get slashed and int gets bumped, but I'm trying to find out how hard they get slashed and how they match up against int after the stat scaling. If you have any numbers or links on that I'd really appreciate it!

As to mastery, yes I do realize that it's pretty amazing in PVE, but I'm not sure how good it is in PVP. If we are talking arcane missiles (not sure abt arcane blasts but I don't really use them), 1% mastery = 1% dmg boost, but 1% vers or haste does that too supposedly (the conversion rates for those two are worse but they offer more useful PVP utilities I'd say, i.e. dmg reduction and faster casts). Mastery does offer more mana but again the value of that in PVP is different from its value in PVE. So yeah IDK
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The boes may be hard to obtain. You’ll want those ilvls. Not sure if an ilvl 27 orb is the same as i28. Idk how most of the drops work at the moment with ilvl and looter’s level. I think i27 is an old drop that happened to scale to 20, and i28 are new drops.

The offhand is rarer on auction houses than the sword imo(I own 3 i27 swords, 1i28. Only 1 i28 offhand.)

the vers food that only is usable if you’re on the legion opener is pretty interesting since you said earlier that it works thru death.

My 19 epic foam is 28int 9stam 18 vers. I25. 20 is i26 though never seen one

Yeah I just found out about the legion food today haha, regretting doing that quest on my DK now lol. And yeah I play on a smaller realm where the twink economy is also non-existent, so I wonder if the BOE farm is actually worse than the relic farm lol.

 

[Childishgankino]

20 intellect is half a trinket proc.... yah it's a lot to have passively but can be overcome with decent gearing.

"it's not too bad" compared to weapon damage classes. THAT is what I said, you're just really nothing but a tool, eh?

I’m just tired of hearing you talking so much and giving wrong information. As you can see this community is growing don’t be feeding the newbies lies. If you are going against a caster with a 49 wep you gonna get fucked up just as hard as a hunter/warrior with a 49 wep if they know what they are doing. Also there are plenty of OG vets out damaging hunters/warriors with 49 weps as a hunter/warrior with lvl 34 weps. Stop the spread of wrong information especially if your NOT even bging yet (MR I have game time) if that’s the case you should wait until you BG a shit ton before putting your input in every post, like you are a consistent bg player in the 20 bracket.

happy tacoooooi Tuesday!

 

[Twobuttons]

I’m just tired of hearing you talking so much and giving wrong information. As you can see this community is growing don’t be feeding the newbies lies. If you are going against a caster with a 49 wep you gonna get fucked up just as hard as a hunter/warrior with a 49 wep if they know what they are doing. Also there are plenty of OG vets out damaging hunters/warriors with 49 weps as a hunter/warrior with lvl 34 weps. Stop the spread of wrong information especially if your NOT even bging yet (MR I have game time) if that’s the case you should wait until you BG a shit ton before putting your input in every post, like you are a consistent bg player in the 20 bracket.

happy tacoooooi Tuesday!

I second this...

 

[Chops]

 

[Eleannor]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=17780/blade-of-eternal-darkness + www.wowhead.com/item=13353/book-of-the-dead ?

 

[Kethcup]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=17780/blade-of-eternal-darkness + www.wowhead.com/item=13353/book-of-the-dead ?

BoED is a great weapon, book of the dead is kind of a meme (skeleton does essentialy nothing). If you find a good vers off-hand, BoED could work (at least for PvE, my main area of expertise)

 

[Warglave]

If you are going against a caster with a 49 wep you gonna get fucked up just as hard as a hunter/warrior with a 49 wep if they know what they are doing.

Ok... and if you're going up against an orc you are gonna get fucked cuz on use racial giving them 15 more int than you.

No, that's dumb. Yes 20 int is a lot, but i'm worried MORE about the damage class weapons. Where did i ever say "20 int is nothing"..? If someone simply gems differently they will have more/less int than you at a given time.

But when will someone gear to have that much more weapon damage? Int can be gained with procs and consumables and chants and gems and etc.... you're always up to face someone with more INT at any given time. If you come up against an OG vet that's properly geared you're likely "fucked" anyway, arent you? Yeah, 20 int hurts more. But joe f2play can get 40 int on a trinket proc, does that mean they are automatically "gonna fuck you" as soon as it's up? Of course not.

Weapon damage is not comparable, int is always a variable and you'll often see the same amount. Not "20 int is nothing"

here's what I said:

That worries me less than the melee/ranged ones, 20 INT isnt too bad... that much weapon damage for melee/ranged is nuts.

here's what you said i said:

@Warglave really just said 20+ intellect is nothing compared to melee twinks with 49 weps...

Fucking idiot.

 

[Zorch]

People get WAY too hard over min/maxing that results in the most minuscule stat increase/decrease that will literally make no tangible difference when you’re nuking or getting nuked in BGs.

I know this is twinking, but don’t have a heart attack over it... some dude was talking about how he deleted a character and rerolled since he didn’t get two epic relics by the time he finished Legion questing.

Don’t be that guy.
[doublepost=1610480123,1610479915][/doublepost]Also, does this board have some different autocorrect that completely fucks with anyone else’s typing? This is the only place on the webernetz where I constantly have to go back in and Edit my posts multiple times because they read like I’m climaxing, having a seizure, and projectiling explosive diarrhea everywhere all at the same time when I post.

 

[Asylum]

www.wowhead.com/item=13353/book-of-the-dead

hate that thing! keeps you in combat.