39 Warlock
- Thread starter Tchobii
- Start date
Ikaar
Veteran
Posted something not to long ago looking for help check that thread out there's an armory link there for afflic, thats the best of the three so far from my feedback
[doublepost=1540663759,1540663711][/doublepost]https://xpoff.com/threads/39-lock.80997/#post-1120123
[doublepost=1540663759,1540663711][/doublepost]https://xpoff.com/threads/39-lock.80997/#post-1120123
Geekz
Legend
Warlock can certainly do well on damage meters but the biggest problem for them right now is no meaningful damage.
Sure your DoTs can tick full duration and pad meters but they’re just tickles compared to something like a boomkin which actually has burst to secure kills.
Combined with the lack of survival talents and spells that are barely good enough for max level warlocks and the squishiness is definitely felt even when you’re being pocket healed.
I’d recommend boomie or shadow priest which have better spread DoT pressure and survivability right now.
Sure your DoTs can tick full duration and pad meters but they’re just tickles compared to something like a boomkin which actually has burst to secure kills.
Combined with the lack of survival talents and spells that are barely good enough for max level warlocks and the squishiness is definitely felt even when you’re being pocket healed.
I’d recommend boomie or shadow priest which have better spread DoT pressure and survivability right now.
Scrubhuntin
Grandfathered
lock isnt bad at all you just need a healer to keep you up and be very aware of your positioning. fear bombs and succubus cc is key.
Misery
Veteran
I haven't played Destro at 39 so I can't say much pertaining to the 39 bracket, but at 19, like Geekz said, a lot of the damage is all padded from DoT. However, if you're playing with experienced healers which is basically what you somewhat have to rely on as any spec of warlock, you can allow for good kill secure from both classes with high sustain and instant damage capabilities. for single target, affliction is probably going to perform a bit better in general, whereas with destro you're relying on your opponent's inexperience to win a 1v1. [EDIT] When I say Affliction is probably performing a bit better vs single target, I mean that in 1v1 duels over the course of the entire duel itself. Besides that, Destruction is going to get off more single target damage in a group fight.
Affliction and Destruction can roughly pad equal damage in group fights, but affliction in a scenario of a group fight in my opinion is less valuable in comparison of Destro, simply because affliction can only have 5 UA max when UA is on more than one target and the time it takes to dot everyone and then x5 UA someone, the problem is you're not bursting and here's where people fail to understand the difference between burst/instant damage and sustained damage. Sustained damage is just consistent damage, burst damage is having the capability of instantly hitting very hard/high. Affliction is not a burst spec, it's a sustain spec and at low levels, the sustain is just in no way worth having if you have the option between a fury warrior or arcane mage which are the two metas for sustain. I'd say, if you were in a BG where you had a lot of boomkins and no more than one arcane mage or fury warrior, chances are you're better off going Affliction. If you're in a BG where you have a lot of sustained damage, go Destruction.
If you're looking to just dedicate to one spec only, at that point I'd probably suggest to play what you're most comfortable with. Both Affliction and Destruction, if used from an experienced player, can be utilized effectively. With how strong healers are at low levels, especially 19 and how often in group fights you can chaos bolt with having a lot of immolates active, I personally find Destruction is generally more useful in comparison of Affliction and seeing what abilities/talents both specs have at 39 I'd still dare to say it's the same thing at 29 and 39 bracket, Destruction slightly being better in a general sense.
Next to all of this, what's better just really comes down to what you perform with best. In my opinion as I've showed, I think Destruction outperforms affliction at low level brackets and definitely at 19 in BGs, but if you're inexperienced with destruction or just don't use it properly then that obviously won't be the case and so Affliction will be the better pick, so in the long run, play what you're most comfortable, but this is what I think of Destro vs Affliction comparison at low level pvp.
I didn't say much about Demonology if anyone was wondering, as the spec is just somewhat gutted at the moment. The burst is actually very high when you run Demonic Strength, but DS is a 60 second cooldown and Demonology's damage is probably the worst spec period when you don't have your CDs up. In general, both Destruction and Affliction outperform Demonology in just about every way.
Affliction and Destruction can roughly pad equal damage in group fights, but affliction in a scenario of a group fight in my opinion is less valuable in comparison of Destro, simply because affliction can only have 5 UA max when UA is on more than one target and the time it takes to dot everyone and then x5 UA someone, the problem is you're not bursting and here's where people fail to understand the difference between burst/instant damage and sustained damage. Sustained damage is just consistent damage, burst damage is having the capability of instantly hitting very hard/high. Affliction is not a burst spec, it's a sustain spec and at low levels, the sustain is just in no way worth having if you have the option between a fury warrior or arcane mage which are the two metas for sustain. I'd say, if you were in a BG where you had a lot of boomkins and no more than one arcane mage or fury warrior, chances are you're better off going Affliction. If you're in a BG where you have a lot of sustained damage, go Destruction.
If you're looking to just dedicate to one spec only, at that point I'd probably suggest to play what you're most comfortable with. Both Affliction and Destruction, if used from an experienced player, can be utilized effectively. With how strong healers are at low levels, especially 19 and how often in group fights you can chaos bolt with having a lot of immolates active, I personally find Destruction is generally more useful in comparison of Affliction and seeing what abilities/talents both specs have at 39 I'd still dare to say it's the same thing at 29 and 39 bracket, Destruction slightly being better in a general sense.
Next to all of this, what's better just really comes down to what you perform with best. In my opinion as I've showed, I think Destruction outperforms affliction at low level brackets and definitely at 19 in BGs, but if you're inexperienced with destruction or just don't use it properly then that obviously won't be the case and so Affliction will be the better pick, so in the long run, play what you're most comfortable, but this is what I think of Destro vs Affliction comparison at low level pvp.
I didn't say much about Demonology if anyone was wondering, as the spec is just somewhat gutted at the moment. The burst is actually very high when you run Demonic Strength, but DS is a 60 second cooldown and Demonology's damage is probably the worst spec period when you don't have your CDs up. In general, both Destruction and Affliction outperform Demonology in just about every way.
Last edited:
Geekz
Legend
Destro without big bolt just seems worse than a mage/boomkin/Ele. Sure the stars can align and you can bolt-bolt-conflag but that’s assuming you’re allowed to stand still and turret and even so that’s what, half a health bar on another geared player? As bad as affliction burst may be, I think 4-5 UAs + death bolt is stronger than the aforementioned Destro burst combo.
Misery
Veteran
That's assuming the destro warlock is just standing still casting absolutely nothing until 4 shards are generated. You immolate, Conf, rack up stacks with double incinerate, use 1 CB, incinerate and/or conf, use your casts now with increased cast speed and if you can, time the casts as close to 0.5 seconds left on buff so you can fear and follow up with incinerate and/or conf. Comparing destro to mage/boomkin here is not really ideal, this thread is about which spec performs best for Warlock, not how much better/worse Warlock is compared to other classes. If you were to have arcane mages, boomkins, any other classes and a destro warlock in a big group battle, the destro warlock is most likely going to top total damage done when played correctly, this is what makes destro good, their padded damage is amazing in BGs, on top of that you can burst pretty well. On a geared player, with just 183 intellect and using weapon swap for power torrent, you can do over 1k damage instantly.
Playing with the mindset of a class only being viable based on what they do to one person is a really bad way to view how a class performs in a battleground as well as tournaments with all twinks. Affliction is just sustained damage on single target and their sustained damage is not even high. The only time Affliction is questionably better vs single target, is dueling. With all the cast time and missing a lot of the important abilities that makes Affliction stand out, it's just generally a weaker link in BGs and I'm willing to prove this to any warlock that plays Affliction at 19. A destro warlock is going to provide even better kill secure in comparison because of how fast shards generate when you have 4+ immolates up, even 3+ and utilizing incinerate correctly.
Playing with the mindset of a class only being viable based on what they do to one person is a really bad way to view how a class performs in a battleground as well as tournaments with all twinks. Affliction is just sustained damage on single target and their sustained damage is not even high. The only time Affliction is questionably better vs single target, is dueling. With all the cast time and missing a lot of the important abilities that makes Affliction stand out, it's just generally a weaker link in BGs and I'm willing to prove this to any warlock that plays Affliction at 19. A destro warlock is going to provide even better kill secure in comparison because of how fast shards generate when you have 4+ immolates up, even 3+ and utilizing incinerate correctly.
Geekz
Legend
To be fair OP asked if lock was even good, to which I believe most people would say certainly viable but outclassed by other casters.
Also you’re referencing 19s when this is about 39s. The scaling is different and I just don’t think Destro holds up without access to big bolt. On top of that the meta in 39s is much more melee dominated (as opposed to the mostly caster meta of 19s). You just don’t get to stand there and freely cast. Most classes have their interrupts, snares and stuns by this point.
Can destro work and even be effective in the hands of a good player with a pocket healer and teammates peeling? Absolutely. Are you going to have a bad time when you solo queue? Absolutely.
Misery
Veteran
Exactly why I can almost guarantee Affliction would probably be worse. Nothing changes between Affliction and Destruction at 39, you all unlock the exact same abilities besides Affl having SoC and Destro having RoF, thus, you're now in a bracket where interrupts/stuns/utilities are more dominant and more casting is required from Affliction in comparison of Destro to ramp up damage with how many times you have to cast UA. If I had a 39 destro warlock I'm 99% certain I would still outplay any Affliction warlock, the other 1% being that I wouldn't be grandfathered or have .01%/.02% BiS BoE drops.
[EDIT] Also, Arcane is still very strong at 39 bracket, you just won't see anyone that knows how to play Arcane correctly. Anyone that played Arcane the way Ziqo and Xaryu played it during Legion, is exactly how Arcane is to be played currently at low levels. This counters any twinked fury/arms warrior and all 3 rogue specs. So technically Arcane can still shut down all the meta melee, but like I said, you probably won't see that due to inexperience. I deleted my 39 arcane mage and I don't plan on playing at 39 in general because for now I'm sticking with 19 bracket and possibly 29 which I also dominate in Arcane, but I've never died to any GF'd warrior, ret pally or rogue at 39. Arcane is just too strong when the person using it knows how to play it and it's impossible for people to understand this until they see it done.
The purpose of this edited statement on Arcane, is just mainly the fact that melee is dominant at 39 and more so at other brackets simply because there are too many inexperienced players at the bracket. With how much damage Fury/Arms can do and even Ret Pally, if you have no idea how to use your CDs properly you're just going to get melted and so imo, 29/39 are both ranged dominant brackets. If you were to put r1 players or even just 2.4K - 2.6K players at 29/39 bracket, ranged DPS would be by far dominant because it's not until 40 bracket that most melee classes can deal with snares/roots/slows with pvp talents. All you can do is hope your teammates know how to play their class. Besides that, yes, it's low level PvP and there are going to be a lot of newbs, but no matter how inexperienced and how many inexperienced players there are, ranged is still dominant by fact.
Last edited:
Geekz
Legend
I invite you to join us and roll a 39 Destro Lock to see for yourself then. I’ll even pocket heal you : P
I appreciate your insight to the 19s meta as I think destro would be pretty fun there, but it’s not as simple as adding 20 levels and saying all things are equal.
Misery
Veteran
When I feel like leveling again I'll maybe get a 39 warlock ready, even though it takes a few hours. I've leveled a lot lately and just want to play the game consistently for now which is why I'll just be using my 119 fire mage and my 19s. If I decide to bother making a 39 destro warlock, I'll let you know. Also, yea, it's not as simple as adding 20 levels, but it's also as simple as having played at 39 in this current patch so I know what the intellect amount and comparison of secondary stats are, so having a lot of experience with pvp in general I have a really good idea of what the numbers will be between Destro and Affliction at 39.
Chops
Soccer Dad
Yikes
Look, do you like playing warlock? Do you think the idea of a twink warlock sounds fun? Then you can make it work.
Sure, 39s is a burst heavy, melee dominated bracket, so the idea of playing a dot based caster seems counter intuitive, so adjust playstyle and expectations accordingly.
There's always classes that look like they under perform and there's always players who take those classes and make them seem broken
And if there's anything this bracket needs, it's people willing to roll those classes and take that chance
Look, do you like playing warlock? Do you think the idea of a twink warlock sounds fun? Then you can make it work.
Sure, 39s is a burst heavy, melee dominated bracket, so the idea of playing a dot based caster seems counter intuitive, so adjust playstyle and expectations accordingly.
There's always classes that look like they under perform and there's always players who take those classes and make them seem broken
And if there's anything this bracket needs, it's people willing to roll those classes and take that chance
Scrubhuntin
Grandfathered
look at holy paladin and then watch trainwreck.. make your face a trainwreck(see what i did there train?)
Geekz
Legend
Certainly! I don’t mean to come off as discouraging; I’m just trying to temper expectations. I speak from my experience with my own 39 lock and I don’t want someone brand new to the bracket to be bummed out when warlock lags behind other classes.