20s behavior in dungeons

Discussion in '20s (Shadowlands)' started by Tiemujin, Oct 6, 2021.

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  1. Peer

    Peer Local Paladin

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    i think it’s whatever, generally i stay but if healer and tank leave everyone can leave and not be penalized anyways.

    There’s been several dungeons where i need the mid/last boss and some fellow twinks just up and leave early on, leaving me in a weird spot and it feels pretty bad.

    Can always leave and requeue and hope to not get those idiots again
     
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  2. NavetFris

    NavetFris Member

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    Ye but i want the gear though :(
     
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  3. TicoDK

    TicoDK New Member

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    Sorry guys, it's all my fault.
    I had to Q WotLK Violet Hold for 1 boss... KEK
     
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  4. Kirise

    Kirise OG

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    Story time. Because why make a short post when I could make a long post? TL;DR in purple for Neon.

    Back in BfA (before they split the queues again), I was farming the Trial of the Champion instance on my 69 resto shaman for the Abyssal Rune trinket, from the second of the three boss fights. That boss also dropped the Banner of Victory, a great melee dps trinket. Trial of the Champion is basically a mini version of Old Hillsbrad: lots of NPC RP, but all in one arena, so no travel time. Most people didn't queue Wrath dungeons, so pops arrived once every 30-40 minutes.

    A 69 tank and a 69 dps showed up in my next queue, which I didn't realize at first until we crushed the second boss much more quickly than we should have, and then both of them promptly /afk'd. A few minutes later, I got another pop and the same duo showed up. Same drill -- second boss, /afk. Seeing the name of the 69 tank, I recognized that player as a previous 59 who used ilvl 180 gear to crush people in 59s. That player had disappeared from the bracket after multiple people reported the gear, and after the nerf to Sul'Thraze.

    At the time, the third boss of Trial of the Champion was really strong. Even as a well-geared twink healer, I couldn't keep three dps alive to down the boss without a tank, and no one was gonna down that boss without a healer. The 69 tank reappeared on my next queue pop, and I said in the chat, "this'll be a quick run to the 2nd boss, but the tank's gonna afk afterward, so don't wait around". The tank lol'd, we completed through the 2nd boss, and then things hung there for a moment. I interjected, "Go on, leave. That's what you use these queues for, isn't it?", goading the 69. After a lengthy pause, he replied, "yep lol" and /afk'd. I apologized to the levelers and left.

    I tell this story because it feels bad to be used as fodder for someone else's purposes, and that's what LFG does to both twinks and levelers. Levelers feel screwed out of finishing an instance, or twinks feel screwed into carrying levelers. Since twinks hold the power of choice in this issue, they typically leave. Before we break out the #notalltwinks sentiment, let's remember that even those who stay to the end of the instance would immediately bail if given the chance, and that's the point -- the design of LFG fails for players with differing goals.

    Level 20 battleground queues would not happen without levelers, and likewise instances would not happen without levelers. Some players are happy to /afk out of either one when they don't get what they want. Except unlike battlegrounds, every dungeon becomes a guaranteed waste for twinks once we complete the boss(es) from which our gear drops. Before LFG, going to an instance implicitly created a commitment to complete the instance with our chosen compatriots. LFG reduced that implicit commitment by automating group formation for the sake of access to instances.

    Some will argue that just because we're randomly grouped, that doesn't absolve us of a commitment to the instance. I agree. But we're twinks in the 20 bracket. We use levelers to get BG queues, and we're the same twinks who use levelers to get instance queues. Don't feed me any BS about how levelers benefit from fast but partial instance runs, or how we carry their battlegrounds. The vast majority of levelers don't understand what we do, any more than they understand RP'ers on Moon Guard. Levelers didn't ask us to blaze dungeons for them, and they didn't ask to get propositioned in Goldshire.

    Is it a little scummy to bail on levelers in an instance? Absolutely. But unless we never queue for random BGs nor random arenas and do everything through wargames and World PvP, we have no room to condemn in a bracket that would not exist without levelers.

    The "easy" fix is to restore the 15- or 30-minute lockout for leaving a dungeon early if you're the first to leave at any point in the dungeon. Put in an artificial disincentive to abandon levelers. Make it faster to complete the instance than to abandon it. But if and until Blizzard decides to reprioritize player collaboration over specific, pre-formed outcomes, players with different goals will find themselves at odds with each other while attempting the same tasks.

    I try not to be too scummy when using levelers to help gear up via instances. But playing in 20s by default already makes us a little scummy, and leaving an instance early lands lower on the scummy scale compared to the rest of what we do. Let's not pretend otherwise.
     
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  5. shanker

    shanker OG

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    i have to admit...i have acted badly

    1. i inspect players at the start, judge and decide if i'm staying or leaving right away

    2. i tend to go in dungeon to see whom i'm competing with gear drops, if i need leather and the other 3/4 are the same gear type, i leave at the start

    3. i have caused pain and suffering to twinks and especially plate leather tanks, alot of BC dungeons have the loot they are farming on the first boss, and i know from experience they will bail based on the gear they have already on when i inspected them. after checking all the players, i start whispering to other non twinks that the tank is a twink, he is only here for the 1st boss and will leave. i tell them i can carry group even with tank which i can and we agree to various scenarios and no vote kick for us.

    - we don't fight the boss and let him/her die, wipe too several times and enjoy the rage, them vote kick them for being toxic
    - "__________________________________", we kill the boss, loot and and stay in combat so twink has to run back. lol, i know some of you have asked and got the replies of stuck in combat, accepting it

    4. intentionally as a healer pull additional mobs to piss off the twink tank. this rages them, but knowing dungeon helps when you can say, i got feared into them and get away with it.

    no one here can say they are innocent with all the whining about relics, gems, 28lvl gear etc. you too have done worse, having shafted twinks that farmed for weeks and months to have their dreams and work shattered

    can you honestly judge my transgressions to the XP ON community measured on minutes to one hour when you have done worse under the false claims of unfairness the OG credo of XP OFF twinking:monkaS:

    Don't cry for me Argentina!
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2021
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  6. chelly

    chelly Grandfathered

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    Out of my 1000+ Rezan runs from Feb - present:

    id say that approx 60% of the runs I did the entire group outside of me wiped when they aggroed all the dinos in mid trying to figure out where I went.

    ….then I left




    ….my Karma? No speed/socket rezan ring.
     
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  7. Zanasis

    Zanasis Legend

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    Thank C'Thun I can solo any instance I can enter...but when I do que LFG I finish every time I'm grouped with random people. I mean what's the big deal about an extra 4 mins anyway? But that's just me.... in my defense I'm old as dirt and probably just trying to buy my way into Heaven anyways.... Meh F' it! get that loot! ( and Grats on lev 50!....you're welcome for the carry ;) )
     
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  8. Monkeyflip

    Monkeyflip Conquered ICC 10 man as level 70 twink!

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    I am also one who leaves the dungeon after I've killed the boss, that drops the item that I need.

    It's fair to say that it's rude to the rest of the group. But to be honest, I don't really care about that - I joined the dungeon, I decide when I wanna leave. Simple as that!
     
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  9. Daltert Moropi

    Daltert Moropi Member

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    You’ll probably get it one day. Just pointing out some of the reasons people leave that one.

    Tell you the truth, it’s actually fun because of the interactions with it and not some random point a to point b like other dungeons we could do.

    edit: curse this phone’s autocorrect…
     
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  10. Margooya

    Margooya Veteran

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    God, so much awful behaviour. Then you guys wonder why twinks get a bad reputation.


    I'm not gonna stay here and pretend I'm a paragon of justice or anything, but at least I TRY to be decent.
    Yeah, even online with strangers it matters. If anything, the way you treat strangers says a lot about who you really are.

    All the justification I see about "its my time" "it's not a huge deal". Not to say to the ones that dont even try to rationalize, and are perfectly fine being complete assholes. Well at least you're not hypocrites.

    Then you'll be the ones saying wow is toxic. No shit. It starts with us, even the "little things" matter.
     
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  11. Nurd

    Nurd Veteran

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    Because when somebody ever complained about twinks and gave them a bad name, its totally because leaving dungeons and NOT about gyfarming poor levelers.

    I'd rather have a person leave and have them be replaced in less than 20 seconds than have some entitled garbanzo tank/healer try to vote kick my friend for entire run of DM , because how dares a BRAND NEW MMO player, do not good dmg especially without heirlooms. Shit like this leaves sour taste in peoples mouth, not a person they never met leaving and having them be replaced in a bit.
     
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  12. Kaxle

    Kaxle OG

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    If this bothers you go play classic where LFG doesn't exist and people actually care. With LFG people get replaced in like 30sec to maybe 5min if it was a tank that left, it doesn't matter.

    OR if you want the comradery of being committed to the group start an unlinked F2P and make friends with other unlinked F2Ps. You dont have access to LFG for the dungeons you want and would have to group up and walk to the dungeons like the old days. Bring back the Aerie Peak glory years
     
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  13. Radoon

    Radoon Member

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    I'm only doing Rezan trys via LFG. I queue and play as a healer. Things go this (simply) way:
    People plays Rezan perfectly? I stay all dung.
    1 guy on the group takes 1 fear? I stay all dung (everyone can have a bad day)
    2 or more guys take fear every time? I leave dung after Rezan kill.
    And it's pretty obvious, if they don't wanna spend a few mins opening dung journal and reading mechanics, why would I spend my few mins ending the run with them?
     
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  14. Brilliant

    Brilliant Legend

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    I love sprinting to Thrall to start the event before any of the levelers get the quest.
     
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  15. Magrain

    Magrain Member

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    I cannot take constructive lessons on common decency and behaviour from someone, especially since the game-devs themselves give 0 fucks about in-game behaviour and player interaction. Nor the majority of people here. If you want to stay, sure. If others dont, theyre free to do whatever they want. I aint justifying anything, but do I really wanna waste time on stuff that will give me 0 benefits? Ill let you answer that. But Spoiler alert, No I wont waste time. Inconsiderate or not, I have been called worse so I appreciate your compliment nontheless.
     
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  16. Ivo

    Ivo Member

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    I couldn't care less for levelers in RDF. Nobody said the dungeon finder's goal is to "complete" every dungeon. It simply gets you in a group with 4 others. There are other ways to lvl up. Quests are the original way of leveling. If there's no punishment for leaving then it's fine. Queueing for XP means you understand fully that someone might leave. No one ever said that dungeons are a way to level up. If I see a twink who's in there for an item from a specific boss - I'll stay to help him/her out, otherwise - bye!

    Also, I regularly get kicked for not doing stuff as the normies do. Not playing a "healer" spec when having to heal or killing mobs too fast (wtf really). I even soloed a boss and got kicked. If they cared for the XP that deeply they would've let me clear as I see fit. Since I usually get kicked it means that people don't really need me so I find it okay to leave whenever I want.
     
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  17. mirrorbender

    mirrorbender Veteran

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    I stay for the whole dungeon for the first few runs, because it's obviously the "moral" thing to do. But if I haven't gotten what I came for in the first 4-5 runs, I'm gonna start leaving after the boss. Screw those TBC/socket/tert drop rates, if blizz wants me to be nicer to other people, they're gonna need to be nicer to me. Taking twice as long to complete the dungeon is fine when you're talking about an hour or so, but when you are doing dozens and dozens of runs, it very quickly becomes a huge waste of time. It's just not worth spending literal days of your life solely for the convenience of strangers when the door is right there, and they'll get another tank/healer in 5 minutes.
     
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  18. Goesid

    Goesid Twink Info Legend

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    I dont, but you know who doesnt wait for levelers to get the Thrall quest? Fkin levelers.
     
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  19. Ammonite

    Ammonite Member

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    Well at least you're honest.
     
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