Regarding Tonight.

Boostz

Boostz

Boostz or Boots
Something has to change. Tonight basically highlighted the current issues at 39, especially regarding the Factions. Horde needs to mix up their roster a bit more, and Alliance still needs help from the veteran players. Horde constantly runs the same core group of extremely skilled players while Alliance plays mix and match. It almost seems that some of the Alliance need to make Horde, more than some Horde need to make Alliance.

From what I am told Alliance won 1 game tonight out of about 10-12. Being in several of those games, not fun. The bracket won't last too much more of nights like this.

However on a positive note, a few games with an Ally FC and a couple of players mentioning the fact they are rolling Rdruid FC's on ally to assist.
 
I personally think that playing ally vs such skilled players if more fun than stomping the other team :) most of the time I can see how I could do better, or it may just be that the other half of my team has to get hearing aids or something, not sure... Sound from teamspeak should go through headphones, but otherwise I do agree to a degree, horde some either come somewhat to ally... That or come just long enough to teach the noob newcomers to play the game idk ;(.. (Not saying I'm amazing, I just know the concept of the game is to win and to win you listen to the more experienced. Or speak up if you have insight on how to win..)
 
1. Not enough healers

2. Didn't have dedicated fc

3. When we did have fc, not same skillset has Immvpee. Plus our healers got worked and cc'ed so our fc got smoked due to no fault of his own.

4. Need more peels, positional awareness (sorry but all in mid while he caps 2 times easy because we don't have flag is inexcusable...let's at least get the flag).

5. Horde had several games with 2+ mages and 2+ hunters. Their hunters were very effective (ranged execute, gg Blizz). At least Horde did not have 4 or 5 priests a game tonite, those games are soul-crushing. The 8 second counterspell on the mage that doesn't DR is also silly OP.

6. We could not catch Immvpee until he had 5 stacks, later on we had success with killing him with rogue/ret before he got flag or very shortly after.

7. DPS comp wasn't ideal (not enough hunters in particular).

8. They capped several flags with a mage fc, so it's not exclusively that.

I'll bring some other class to the table if I have to, I have a druid that just needs to be updated. I do find value in the ret offheals as I like to play support, but clearly other things need to be done to make this successful for Alliance.
 
We might want to be a little stronger in the enforcement of the feral ban. I came in late, but most of the games I played in, had the same feral on horde. His presence was distracting.

Also, how the hell did we get level 30 and 35 rogues? Did they just randomly lock xp and happen to queue on game night, or are we being trolled?

Other than that, if we get people to stop roleplaying factions and play a FC and a healer or two on alliance, we'd be fine. I hopped in TS after the first game, and it seemed coordinated enough. Even won one.

Anyway, I had fun on my first games on a warrior. Games don't really seem any worse than random games in other bracket I've played in. I hope people's want for perfectly balanced games doesn't kill this thing established before it even has a chance to grow.
 
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This has been an issue for quite sometime. Seems to have come to a head in the last couple nights though. Alliance primarily lacks a skilled fc and consistent tcs. When we have a strong TC, game nights are generally pretty solid. Dps for the most part don't peel and as a result it's not terribly rewarding to heal. If you try to ride mami, patt, etc horde peels hard and punishes. Alliance lets you rot and then says 'need more disc lol' at the end of the game.
 
I really wish I could play 3 roles at once. I played demo lock for 3 games or so -- around 40+ hardcasted fears per game, plus leap howls on the group. Focused on keeping melee off our heals. I petmoved my succubus behind lines and seduced healers while I feared mid threats. But we didn't have an FC or enough good heals. So we got rolled on and lost.

I rolled my ally healer for 1-2 games and got rolled because heals got walked on by enemy melee because I wasn't there to peel for them, and we STILL didn't have an FC. So we got rolled on and lost.

So I rolled my WW's offspec to be a stopgap FC. But then our heals never got peels and I died.. that and our team(half due to comp, and half due to general lack of competence/coordination) REFUSED to push EFC even when it's BREWMASTER VS MAGE AT 12 STACKS.

Then games stopped due to horde shortage, I went horde mage and effectively worked with the group, made plays and important peels, kept healers locked down as we got stuff done even with minimal communication. Things just clicked together and people capitalized on openings I made/vice versa, or just worked on killing the obvious target without it needing to be called. Lost one close game 1-1 due to general dicking around, and ally had both fancy and moran playing together.


When you only play one class/spec, it kind of limits your view of the big picture. What's specifically happening to you can feel like the *biggest* issue holding your team back.

But honestly, and I think I have the most experience playing different things at 39 now that I have ~8 different classes and all 3 roles on both sides...

Alliance needs better players. Some of the player on alliance need to either improve by ~500 rating, or give way to some people who know how to play together and play to their strengths. And those that ARE adequate/good at their class need to mesh together and actually play their roles. Class comp is a big thing, beyond just not having an FC. Melee to discourage the other team's melee from walking all over healers, casters to spam CC/interrupts/mongo scoreboard dmg and run healers oom. At least one good disc or rsham, with MWs backing him/her up. A rogue that understands what a rogue needs to do in a 39s BG and does it(moran does, but moran doesn't queue) along with a similar hunter.

Alliance doesn't need 2 mages per game with less than 10 polymorphs between them because "they were busy doing objectives" like a fire mage chasing EFC around or a frost mage trying to pick flag, just because nobody else would. It doesn't need 6 people per game who refuse to get in teamspeak, or talk in teamspeak if they are in. It doesn't need a single Hpally healer. It doesn't need an rdruid that ragequits after the first game when down 0-2. It doesn't need 2 rogues that won't work together and sit some akward spot between mid and efc but never actually open or contribute, or rogues that waste blind on random targets for no reason.

At any given point tonight there were 5 *good* players on alliance in any one game at most. And those good players were gimping themselves by not playing classes/specs that align with what roles they needed to fill.

Honestly, I don't think horde needs to change. Horde is in a good place, the team feels tight-knit even without much actual vocalization. People understand what they need to do.
Alliance needs to improve vastly in playerbase, communication and class selection.

That's my take on it, as somebody who's constantly playing whatever's most needed instead of what he enjoys the most.

Alliance needs to imp
 
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Batts said:
Honestly, I don't think horde needs to change. Horde is in a good place, the team feels tight-knit even without much actual vocalization. People understand what they need to do.
Alliance needs to improve vastly in playerbase, communication and class selection.
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If horde doesn't change neither will the state of affairs. It's exceedingly unlikely that the alliance player base is going to collectively raise its game anytime soon. Growth has slowed significantly and we are not going to have our ranks bolstered in the foreseeable future. It's not a particularly daunting proposition for horde players either. There are at least two no questions asked alliance guilds that provide funding.
 
There's a flaw inherent with your "horde needs to be less good" mindset as opposed to "alliance needs to get better."

I for one don't think things will be more enjoyable just by splitting up people who work well together and pitting them against each other, with people with no drive to improve themselves interspersed throughout.

I used to think that was the solution, but that's not going to lead to better games. From the months we've been doing this, I've come to the conclusion that several alliance players just don't care about winning, doing well in general or improving their play, they just run in and hit buttons at the first red name they see until they die, then get mad at healers/teammates for not allowing them to hit buttons at red names uninterrupted.

I don't want those players on horde as much as I don't want them on alliance.

Remember that this point of view is coming from someone who queues 90% alliance. I share the getting stomped, and I would also like to stop getting stomped, but I don't want to at the expense of good players on the opposing team. I didn't join this, or any, twink bracket with a "lets mix the good and the bad kids together so games are all fair and nobody cries" mentality. I want both sides to be competitive. And right now, all that really calls for is:

1. A dedicated, decent flag carrier. As a plus alliance doesn't even have to have mouse jump macros to exploit terrain, because our side of the map doesn't support it nearly as much anyway.

2. I place this above the third point for a reason. A rogue and hunter with at least decent synergy that can work and communicate with each other and peel to EFC before 15 stacks, perform general disruption and CC, and stall/isolate certain threats from crossing.

3. A more balanced midfield complete with adequate target calling, and that PEEEEELS FOR EACH OTHER AND PUNISHES OVEREXTENDERS. It took me just under 4 hours to level a non-monk from 1-39. Other than rogue, alts aren't hard or expensive to gear. Certain niche classes are okay/good. When there are constantly more than what's needed of you, somebody needs to be the bigger man and find a niche that needs filling.

This bracket does not have an inherently high skill cap. If somebody's interested at all in playing better, there are plenty of people around to ask/choose from that you could learn from either by watching closely or talking to and learning from.

If Ally isn't going to step up to the plate, I'd rather have the bracket die and we all move onto something more fruitful than just go through the motions listlessly like this last queue session.

Wotlk 39s on a private server. Just throwing that out there.
 
obviously we all know Alliance is missing something. Point the blame wherever you like, but MORE Premading and VoDing will give samples on; How to play well, What classes can do what, and bring more competition to the bracket.

So, stop being unavailable. transfer to a server with 39s that can form a guild/group and kick some butt!

Enjoy this Alliance win in the mean time :p Twitch 1hour 27mins
 
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Horde showed just how interested they are in quality games with their support of that feral in the later games. Not really any point in alliance changing anything, if the players that always play horde are just going to be fucking douchebags & support a banned spec.
 
Waterworks said:
Edit: Teamspeak is somehow still a mystery to some people.
Click to expand...

I know a few people out there think Teamspeak is the magic bullet, but it really isn't when we have all of the issues I mentioned. You're also getting mental about it during a game, to the point you're creating a distraction. Like you went ballistic on a guy in game yesterday and it just wasn't cool.

Sure, Teamspeak might be valuable if it's premade v premade or games get serious time. And it's fun when people in TS are fun. We ain't there yet. Some of the 15 year olds also need to keep a lid on it because no one cares about your experiences with Justin Bieber. You don't need Teamspeak to know how to peel, make a target macro to assist someone instead of sheeping their target, to watch nameplates for hard switches, etc.

Let's work on getting a flag carrier, a decent comp, etc etc. Games were really frustrating yesterday and a lot of friendships are being tested, but lets focus on the main issues then go from there.

I'm happy to go back to playing Horde if you think I'm the problem on Alliance side. But I'm also willing to bring a different Alliance toon to the table.
 
Shaket said:
Horde showed just how interested they are in quality games with their support of that feral in the later games. Not really any point in alliance changing anything, if the players that always play horde are just going to be fucking douchebags & support a banned spec.
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what do u mean support lol, do u want everyone to afk until the bg ends instead cus theres a feral in the game? iirc he got kicked aswell
 
Shaket said:
Horde showed just how interested they are in quality games with their support of that feral in the later games. Not really any point in alliance changing anything, if the players that always play horde are just going to be fucking douchebags & support a banned spec.
Click to expand...

Horde tried to votekick him multiple times.

If you don't have something nice to say then don't say it, especially if it is unsupported.
 
Batts said:
Wotlk 39s on a private server. Just throwing that out there.
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I can make that happen. :^) A server where you can transfer your retail character onto the private server would be the best imo.
 
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Batts said:
There's a flaw inherent with your "horde needs to be less good" mindset as opposed to "alliance needs to get better."

I for one don't think things will be more enjoyable just by splitting up people who work well together and pitting them against each other, with people with no drive to improve themselves interspersed throughout.

I used to think that was the solution, but that's not going to lead to better games. From the months we've been doing this, I've come to the conclusion that several alliance players just don't care about winning, doing well in general or improving their play, they just run in and hit buttons at the first red name they see until they die, then get mad at healers/teammates for not allowing them to hit buttons at red names uninterrupted.

I don't want those players on horde as much as I don't want them on alliance.

Remember that this point of view is coming from someone who queues 90% alliance. I share the getting stomped, and I would also like to stop getting stomped, but I don't want to at the expense of good players on the opposing team. I didn't join this, or any, twink bracket with a "lets mix the good and the bad kids together so games are all fair and nobody cries" mentality. I want both sides to be competitive. And right now, all that really calls for is:
Click to expand...

What's your definition of competitiveness then?

To me, swapping sides represents basic bracket stewardship. The burden of losing almost every game simply because of faction is rather greater than occasionally rotating to alliance.

Beachcomber said:
I know a few people out there think Teamspeak is the magic bullet, but it really isn't when we have all of the issues I mentioned. You're also getting mental about it during a game, to the point you're creating a distraction. Like you went ballistic on a guy in game yesterday and it just wasn't cool.

Sure, Teamspeak might be valuable if it's premade v premade or games get serious time. And it's fun when people in TS are fun. We ain't there yet. Some of the 15 year olds also need to keep a lid on it because no one cares about your experiences with Justin Bieber. You don't need Teamspeak to know how to peel, make a target macro to assist someone instead of sheeping their target, to watch nameplates for hard switches, etc.
Click to expand...

When the more dominant faction is utilizing TS, it really does become a necessity. Most people suffer from myopia in BGs as it can be difficult sometimes to know what is important at any given moment beyond your immediate surroundings (particularly if the fight is intense). TS enables more experienced players to marshal the less able/newer into a more effective unit. The personal cost of logging into TS is what? Not being able to listen to your music as loud? The Justin Bieber/15 year old comment is asinine and inaccurate. No one can make you log into TS if you don't want to but let's not pretend that decision has any real merit.
 
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