The Future of 39s, and some Arena Night talk

anatomyx

Legend
If you don't care about what I have to say in detail, just scroll to the bottom for a TLDR.

I've been a little busy the past couple days so I haven't been around as much as I'd like, but I'd like to talk about a few things we've seen happen in the bracket lately and a little bit about our future too.


First - Arena Night:

I was not able to participate on Wednesday, but I've heard varying opinions on our first Arena Night both from my guild and reading posts on TI. The biggest concern seems to be people running "broken" comps. This seems to be, in a way, just the nature of arena, I don't know. I just find it a little puzzling that most people seem to want to help WSG games a lot, but then when arena rolled around it sounded like it was just a battle of who could play the most OP comp. Overall, the general opinion seems to be "I had fun, but there's only so much of getting trained by melee I can take before I get bored and want to stop", which I think is totally understandable.

It's pretty obvious that 2s isn't the most balanced thing out there but I figured this would be worth a shot to keep activity (somewhat) rolling throughout the week. There's the thought of 3v3 arena as well, but all I can really see by switching to 3v3 is the same problem persisting. It's difficult to deal with OP classes in a bracket where you really only have so few options to play your character, even more so with very few teammates in arena. That being said, I'm unsure at this point what is going to happen. There's a decent chance that I'll drop Arena night, but this brings me to my next topic.


A 2nd Battleground Night:

I'm well aware of concerns from "veteran" players who have seen it all before and have watched brackets die in the span of a few weeks due to rapid expansion. I'm afraid of it just as much of anyone, but I'm also afraid that being too passive in a revival will have the same outcome that we're trying so hard to avoid.

I've said this before, but I think that it's an impossibility for this bracket to survive on one night of BGs per week. I tried to lessen the wait by introducing an Arena night, but as I've mentioned above, there seems to be too many issues involved in something like that. All I can forsee in continuing an Arena night is people getting frustrated. Either way, if we're too scared to try to grow the bracket in terms of what matters most (BGs), we're not going to appeal to anyone outside the players who are already here. People aren't going to come to 39 when they know that all they can expect are a few hours of games on a Saturday night.


Why I think we're almost ready for 2nd night -

The two nights we've had so far have had really high activity. The 2nd night was a vast improvement over the first in terms of numbers and also in gameplay quality. I heard that we had 4 games (3 100% confirmed) going at once earlier in the night. We had a lot of people in the new teamspeak communicating with others during games. We also had a lot of players put in work to balance out games by making new characters, be it on the opposite faction or something not as "OP" so there aren't obvious balancing issues in games.

I think what we've done so far has been successful, and if we keep making an effort to promote the bracket and create a better gameplay experience it's going to appeal to a lot more players with time. There are also several small projects going on behind the scenes that will help us. Boostz is making a 39 promotion video, there's teams forming for premades (possibly even organized "pug" wargames) and there's even a 39 twink cup on the horizon.

I think these things provide us with even more reason to expand the bracket. It shows that this time around, a lot of people really care about the bracket staying alive and are putting a lot of effort into ensuring that it stays active. The only way we can really gain more interest as a whole is to provide more of what twink players want - battlegrounds. That's why the only solution moving forward that I can see is introducing a 2nd BG night.

It's not something we're going to jump into yet, but I think if this Saturday's games are also a success it's something I'm going to put a lot of effort into setting up. I also want to know what everyone else thinks, so if you have an opinion on a 2nd BG night, leave me a post in this thread. Sorry for the long read.


TL;DR - It's time to think about having a 2nd BG Night due to the activity and interest the bracket is getting so far. What are your opinions on a 2nd night?
 
nobody thinks that arena night was a failure, just that playing BGs would be more enjoyable because that's what twinkers are all about


what if we combined arena and BG nights? i know the issue with this - it messes up queues if people are trying for both at the same time


but there's still a lot of downtime before the games start popping. some arena a few hours before the games would be a blast and get everybody fired up and ready to twink, then around a certain time we all start queueing WSG/TP and the games will be flowing. after BG queues die down we could keep twinking long into the night with arenas



signed with love,
GAYTWINKER:eek:
 
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These are two main metrics which will best determine if a bracket is ready for an additional day.

The first: Are two games going at once for an extended period of time (2+ hours)?
The second: Are games starting early?

The bracket has passed both in the first two weeks. If it continues again this Saturday then you most likely are correct [MENTION=13290]anatomyx[/MENTION] . It terrifies me to agree with such early expansion, but the standards used in the past for have been met. In the case of metric one, it has actually been exceeded. If both pass this Saturday another game night seems inevitable.

I would love to have Bwappo offer his thoughts on this as well. He and I have spent who knows how many hours discussing successful and failed revivals over the years.
 
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What a great Idea, if only someone mentioned it last week. oh wait, that was me :p:p

As far as Arena night. I think it was a huge success, as I stated in the Arena Night thread, a handful of teams were queing for 3-4 hours with multiple solo-ques. Sorry healer + X is good? Sorry skill beats your comp? I personally played with a great rogue (tapout). He saw me and asked to que 2s. We won a lot of games probably 70%-80%. We lost to mirrors, we beat mirrors. We lost to worse comps and then came back and beat them the next game. We lost to WW+disc we beat WW+disc, we lost to BM+disc, we beat BM+disc. games were very fun. and I felt no comp was too "OP". We beat every single team at least once and some of those came after a loss and some new strategy. Arenas aren't bad. what was lacking was maybe voice comm, or skill, or experience with your comp/teammate/class/spec.
Don't be so quick to dismiss Arena night, I feel a lot of players had fun!

my 2 cents.
 
First - Arena Night:The biggest concern seems to be people running "broken" comps. This seems to be, in a way, just the nature of arena, I don't know. I just find it a little puzzling that most people seem to want to help WSG games a lot, but then when arena rolled around it sounded like it was just a battle of who could play the most OP comp. Overall, the general opinion seems to be "I had fun, but there's only so much of getting trained by melee I can take before I get bored and want to stop", which I think is totally understandable.
First arena night for me was mehhh. Not sure why I thought everyone would be solo-que'n like me but that didn't seem to be the case. Tons of rogues, eventually I just felt like it was a waste of my time and did end-game arenas with a bud who was asking me to run 2s. Not sure if dropping Arena Night is a good idea or not.
I also want to know what everyone else thinks, so if you have an opinion on a 2nd BG night, leave me a post in this thread. Sorry for the long read.
Another BG night would be cool with me. Having a lot of players in the Teamspeak was fun. Maybe we could have 6-7 channels dedicated for games? That way you can move to different channels for different matches?
*39 Hangout
*Game 1 - Alliance
*Game 1 - Horde
*Game 2 - Alliance
*Game 2 - Horde
*Game 3 - Alliance
*Game 3 - Horde
 
These are two main metrics which will best determine if a bracket is ready for an additional day.

The first: Are two games going at once for an extended period of time (2+ hours)?
The second: Are games starting early?

The bracket has passed both in the first two weeks. If it continues again this Saturday then you most likely are correct @atanomyx . It terrifies me to agree with such early expansion, but the standards used in the past for have been met. In the case of metric one, it has actually been exceeded. If both pass this Saturday another game night seems inevitable.
.

Im of the same opinion as Yoube. I was super hyped to see 3+ games at a time last week. That was awesome. I was ESPECIALLY excited to see twin peaks popping (twin peaks > wsg) and the way it kinda broke up the standard "clash mid, die, chase FC, wash, rinse, repeat" game play of WSG. But I hesitate to see expansion this early.

That said, the last few times, we havent really had a plan OR the level of participation and excitement that we do now. Having a twink cup on the horizon will gives us a direction to move toward and something to work on, rather than just another night of games. Thats a big change and something I think is gonna drive this bracket through the roof. When a second night happens, I'll do what I can to be there. Weeknights suck for me but I'll at least try to get a game or two.

As for arena night, you're always gonna have busted comps. Especially in 2s. Given the strength of rogue and BM, you're gonna run into cheese comps alot. 2s arent fun when you die in a stun because ambush+keg smash is 150% of your health bar. I'd argue for any arena night being 3s. I mean, you're still gonna get trained by rogue/BM/priest but at least then you have a few more options and games will likely last longer than the opener.

Anyway, my two cents.
 
Agreed. After this weekend goes well and we see the same level of activity, I'd say we are pretty safe and no longer have to wonder if this is going to be another flash in the pan. Super excited to expand to another day!
 
f 39s are getting 3-4 simultaneous bgs, frankly that was the past metric used to go to *three* nights a week, which is a much greater challenge than going to two nights. Most brackets don't spend too long at just one night a week, for all the reasons mentioned in this thread. I say get the second night going.

I had a lot of fun in arenas, as awful as I played. Some classes and specs clearly outdo others, but that's par for XP-off. We're still feeling out the threshold of output vs. defensive stats.
 

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