39 Revival Summer 2015

Ishape said:

Conq I don't think you realize exactly how much more fun 39s are than 19s... Any 19 that has given 39s a legit chance have learned that very quickly.

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I understand that the current pvp is probably a bit more dynamic than 19s and in a good way but that isn't forever, and a momentary fling for 39s could end up having a lasting impact on 19s, I'm down for 39s, I want every bracket to be active, but you gotta get one bracket on steady footing before the same people take on another one or neither will have any success.

I have a 39s resto druid with the corporal title that I rezzed, he was one of my first characters, i'm going to be transferring too Bleeding Hollow at some point because I do want to play 39s sometime, i'm just unsure that now is the right time, objectively speaking.

Conq said:

I understand that the current pvp is probably a bit more dynamic than 19s and in a good way but that isn't forever, and a momentary fling for 39s could end up having a lasting impact on 19s, I'm down for 39s, I want every bracket to be active, but you gotta get one bracket on steady footing before the same people take on another one or neither will have any success.

I have a 39s resto druid with the corporal title that I rezzed, he was one of my first characters, i'm going to be transferring too Bleeding Hollow at some point because I do want to play 39s sometime, i'm just unsure that now is the right time, objectively speaking.

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This is why we planned it after the twink cup and also aligned with summer time. The perfect time statistically and logically, 19s is great and all but trying to get a bracket that doesn't have F2Ps in it is almost impossible in the long run. We have to plan spikes of revivals firstly if we are to have a shot at having a bracket active for lengthy periods of time. No offense to you, but right now I am getting the strongest vibes from the TI owner Myrm straight down to almost all the mods are 19 fanatics, which is starting to make other brackets feel forgotten and non-existent. A simple thing as at least trying to get some bracket managers going in the different brackets, even 20-29....which is the main bracket, a simple task...can't even be done up to this point.....

The other point as well is that bracket managers should be managers that act without interference from other bracket managers or brackets. This is to promote their own bracket and not promote another bracket at their own bracket's expense. At the end of the day people should have a choice in what they play not a fling in 39s might have a lasting effect on 19s, people have the right to choose what they want to play even if it means people playing 39s and it ends up killing 19s.....it is their choice!!!

paynefull said:

This is why we planned it after the twink cup and also aligned with summer time. The perfect time statistically and logically, 19s is great and all but trying to get a bracket that doesn't have F2Ps in it is almost impossible in the long run. We have to plan spikes of revivals firstly if we are to have a shot at having a bracket active for lengthy periods of time. No offense to you, but right now I am getting the strongest vibes from the TI owner Myrm straight down to almost all the mods are 19 fanatics, which is starting to make other brackets feel forgotten and non-existent. A simple thing as at least trying to get some bracket managers going in the different brackets, even 20-29....which is the main bracket, a simple task...can't even be done up to this point.....

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For me, I don't see the point in sacrificing one bracket for another. The TI staff have an interest in every bracket being active.

19s has more momentum and quality at the moment than even back in TBC, right now all we need is the quantity, to put 19s to a halt at this critical turning point in our history (and that is what a some-what successful 39s revival would do) is confusing to me, and seems like we are spreading ourselves too thin, but i won't be participating in 39s so i'll refrain from posting further.

Edit: On your other point, I'm not preventing anyone from making a choice, or shorting conversation, I am making people aware of the effects their efforts will have, and the idea that a forum user should be regulated to one section and not allowed to state their opinion on a subject that directly impacts them would be a level of censorship I would hope any moderator would be uncomfortable with.

Conq said:

For me, I don't see the point in sacrificing one bracket for another. The TI staff have an interest in every bracket being active.

19s has more momentum and quality at the moment than even back in TBC, right now all we need is the quantity, to put 19s to a halt at this critical turning point in our history (and that is what a some-what successful 39s revival would do) is confusing to me, and seems like we are spreading ourselves too thin, but i won't be participating in 39s so i'll refrain from posting further.

Edit: On your other point, I'm not preventing anyone from making a choice, or shorting conversation, I am making people aware of the effects their efforts will have, and the idea that a forum user should be regulated to one section and not allowed to state their opinion on a subject that directly impacts them would be a level of censorship I would hope any moderator would be uncomfortable with.

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You see the problem with this is that that your entire response is from a 19s perspective, just by you saying that people playing 39s can have a negative effect on 19s is the exact reverse of what a 39 would say. Which shows a slight bias towards 39s, and when the authorities at hand has biases, someone will always be fighting an uphill battle. I don't know who elected the mods and by no means am I disrespecting them in anyway, but when this system was being placed representatives from respective 29s and 39s brackets should have been chosen to be mods.
I'm not saying that brackets should clash head on, the reason why we aimed for after the twink cup is to allow focus on that specific bracket. But the planned continuation of 19s and as the NWL says, they plan on making it yearlong with 4 seasons. Shows clear bias initiatives for the 19s bracket. There hasn't been any sort of mod initiative towards other brackets except for when [MENTION=5141]Myrm[/MENTION] said choose your bracket manager, an initiative that was never followed up on...
And it's not the mod that would be sacrificing any bracket, they are just individual players, the masses of people are the ones that would be choosing what bracket they want to play. Just by looking at the amount of players on the "Elect a day" vote panel, we can see how much players are interested in some form or fashion. I'm not here to kill 19s, I'm here to promote 39s because thats my choice and right, and the right and choice of anyone who wants to play it as well. But when the leadership creates a visual tunnel that leads to 19s, all other brackets get unconsciously left out.

There has to be a form of authority to represent solely 29s and 39s at the highest levels, there has to be.....not a 19 wolf in sheep's clothing pretending to promote 29s or 39s, we have 29 and 39 ferals for that!!!

paynefull said:

not a 19 wolf in sheep's clothing pretending to promote 29s or 39s, we have 29 and 39 ferals for that!!!

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I am bias towards 19s, I have not attempted to hide that at all, I've explained my logic to you, which you have not denied, i'm not misrepresenting myself at all, I've been 100% honest with you. You say you don't mean disrespect yet you would are trying to discredit a man who has spent dozens of hours working for the benefit of something which will be greatly impacted by this subject. Moderator or not, that's unfair.

Conq said:

I am bias towards 19s, I have not attempted to hide that at all, I've explained my logic to you, which you have not denied, i'm not misrepresenting myself at all, I've been 100% honest with you. You say you don't mean disrespect yet you would are trying to discredit a man who has spent dozens of hours working for the benefit of something which will be greatly impacted by this subject. Moderator or not, that's unfair.

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It is unfair, I agree. But the people get what they want...thats also their right and choice completely out of my hands, and to have a bias from a position of power that is supposed to be neutral....at least in my eyes. Is also unfair to the people of the 29s and 39s bracket. What about the people that have made 39s guilds and spent tens of thousands of gold and countless hours (myself included), or the 29 guild leaders that have to resort to btag organization to try to push an event...what about their efforts.
My point is that, as a Mod your say is like a golden fleece compared to my spec of a scrum say. The power you guys posses with your words can greatly influence a lot of people. What you say is a representation of the site and is taken as such, so for you to openly say that your biased towards 19s from a position such as yours.....completely destroys the confidence people on the site may have on events from the 29s and 39s bracket. It basically makes 19s official and this 39 revival some kind of back door alley event.
I would gladly volunteer to be a mod for the sole purpose of promoting these brackets, or would fully support anyone whose values align with that concept. But at the end of the day there needs to be some sort of power representation for these brackets or else the website would start to fall along the lines of #nineteeninfo no long twinkinfo.

paynefull said:

It is unfair, I agree. But the people get what they want...thats also their right and choice completely out of my hands, and to have a bias from a position of power that is supposed to be neutral....at least in my eyes. Is also unfair to the people of the 29s and 39s bracket. What about the people that have made 39s guilds and spent tens of thousands of gold and countless hours (myself included), or the 29 guild leaders that have to resort to btag organization to try to push an event...what about their efforts.
My point is that, as a Mod your say is like a golden fleece compared to my spec of a scrum say. The power you guys posses with your words can greatly influence a lot of people. What you say is a representation of the site and is taken as such, so for you to openly say that your biased towards 19s from a position such as yours.....completely destroys the confidence people on the site may have on events from the 29s and 39s bracket. It basically makes 19s official and this 39 revival some kind of back door alley event.
I would gladly volunteer to be a mod for the sole purpose of promoting these brackets, or would fully support anyone whose values align with that concept. But at the end of the day there needs to be some sort of power representation for these brackets or else the website would start to fall along the lines of #nineteeninfo no long twinkinfo.

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paynefull for 39's bracket manager

Wow. [MENTION=26098]paynefull[/MENTION] Preach.

I don't want to disrespect the new ownership, but the first thing I thought when I saw that Myrm was the new Owner of Twinkinfo was that the 19 bracket would receive the majority of attention. Take the recently awarded Bracket Managers and "awesome" titles. They have only been distributed in the 10-19 bracket (only to 19 twinks though). How many blue names do you see outside of 10-19?

You make a very good point. Mods have a strong say when it comes to statements compared to others. Sadly, most don't realize that.

I love your wording btw, it was really well "articulated"

I'd "like" your post 10 times but I can't. But +10, there.

Conq you have your plate full atm so you should probably take a backseat on this and join us once we get games rolling at 39s. This has nothing to do with 19s and approaching it like 39s trying to play would pose some kind of issue for 19s is silly at this point. This is about getting people who want to play 39s to actively work on doing that.

August 8th hype, lets do it people!

A quick note to add. [MENTION=3652]Nicozy[/MENTION] and I may be able to help out a few select 39ers Alliance side on AP.

So personally from someone whos always played 19s and have played 39s and 49s back in the day i see no problem with having both brackets its not like once i start playing my 39s i will totally forget my 19s exist. conq i love what you do for 19s but i dont see why you have to try and bring 39s down they ar ejust trying to get themselves going. On another note a few of us about 6-7 have made 39s on aggramar alliance and will be ready to play 39s after the twink cup.

Lunch break rant topic.

Be good to each other! Asking about whether 19s will suffer from a 39 revival, is a legit question. Having a bias for 19s is also legit.

Saying that 39s should still take the opportunity to revive when they can, is a legit answer. Having a bias for 39s is also legit.

I don't see #Conq or anyone trying to "prevent" a 39 revival, and asking the hard questions about community impact over multiple brackets shows that people care. If people are concerned about bracket bias on TI toward 19s, talk about it, but take it to another thread. 19s have almost always been more popular than 39s, and that doesn't bother me any more than endgame being more popular than all of twinking put together. Moreover, 19s are in a better place than when the 39 revival created problems for 19s last year.

As someone who has extended experience in multiple brackets over the years, I can say that cross-pollination between brackets often proves fruitful, as long as the foundation of the existing brackets is strong enough. it sounds like 19s are in a good spot.

TL;DR: 19s are in a well-earned, better spot to not only survive during a 39 revival, but ultimately benefit from it. The integrity of the 19 bracket is a legit question, and I think 19s will be pleased with the long-term results.

It is a legit question, and I get where Conq is coming from. 19s are blowing up right now, and on top of that they've got the twink cup going, which is giving a huge boost to awareness from the WoW community as a whole, as well as shining light on the bracket itself and showing everyone that a) twinking isn't just people who want to roll levelers, and b) 19s isn't just a 3 button bracket. Were the roles reversed between 19s and 39s I would feel the same way, I would fight anything that might put that momentum at risk. I think if twinking in general gets a boost, it will owe it to 19s.

39s is my love, and I know that over all 19s have had way more activity than 39s. I've been waiting a long time for 39s to come back. Seeing someone come in here and say "this might hurt 19s", by extension/implication, he is saying "I don't like the idea of 39s coming back" which, understandably, puts us on the defensive. At the end of the day, we should have just as much right as anyone else to promote our bracket.

However, the last last last thing I want is two brackets competing against each other and causing a rift in the community. I also think 19s are in a much stronger position now than they were last time. I really don't see 39s hurting 19s at this point, and even if that started to happen, since a large (I think) amount of the playerbase is shared between 19s and 39s, we should be able to work together to share the spotlight.

Time for another 39 cast? [MENTION=140]Helbent[/MENTION] , [MENTION=20802]Chops[/MENTION] , [MENTION=1052]Bwappo[/MENTION] ?

For sure! Hopefully with less internet issues on my part this time.

Bwappo said:

Lunch break rant topic.
Be good to each other! Asking about whether 19s will suffer from a 39 revival, is a legit question. Having a bias for 19s is also legit.
Saying that 39s should still take the opportunity to revive when they can, is a legit answer. Having a bias for 39s is also legit.
I don't see #Conq or anyone trying to "prevent" a 39 revival, and asking the hard questions about community impact over multiple brackets shows that people care. If people are concerned about bracket bias on TI toward 19s, talk about it, but take it to another thread. 19s have almost always been more popular than 39s, and that doesn't bother me any more than endgame being more popular than all of twinking put together. Moreover, 19s are in a better place than when the 39 revival created problems for 19s last year.
As someone who has extended experience in multiple brackets over the years, I can say that cross-pollination between brackets often proves fruitful, as long as the foundation of the existing brackets is strong enough. it sounds like 19s are in a good spot.
TL;DR: 19s are in a well-earned, better spot to not only survive during a 39 revival, but ultimately benefit from it. The integrity of the 19 bracket is a legit question, and I think 19s will be pleased with the long-term results.

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Much of what you said there is correct, anyone who plays in these brackets are welcome to have their own bracket bias, except when it comes down to Myrm and the MODs...who are supposed to be neutral. Else the whole site becomes a 19 twink site. Just by the position of a MOD saying "I will not be participating in 39s" shows where his allegiances are, and in relation the general direction of the website. It's one thing to argue with respect to the twink cup that 39s would be taking focus, but we planned it after the twink cup. And now they are planning to have 19s year round, which is a very very strong bias towards 19s, to add to that.....absolutely nothing is being done about the other brackets in terms of MOD interaction.
I'm afraid to say it but TI is very much going down a road that it might not be able to come back from, and that is turning into a 19 twink site.

To address these two concerns:

Helbent said:

Seeing someone come in here and say "this might hurt 19s", by extension/implication, he is saying "I don't like the idea of 39s coming back" which, understandably, puts us on the defensive.

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paynefull said:

Much of what you said there is correct, anyone who plays in these brackets are welcome to have their own bracket bias, except when it comes down to Myrm and the MODs...who are supposed to be neutral. Else the whole site becomes a 19 twink site. Just by the position of a MOD saying "I will not be participating in 39s" shows where his allegiances are, and in relation the general direction of the website.

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I understand that you two felt put on the defensive, and of course you're right to want an opportunity for 39s to step up. I'm saying, be careful that you don't create the very problem you're trying to avoid, by reacting so strongly to others' concerns. I'd rather have a TI owner and Mods who were upfront about their favorite brackets, as long as they didn't try to leverage that to harm other brackets. Bracket repression works against everyone's best interests, and I think Myrm and company seem to understand that, from what I can tell.

Edit: I stand corrected, after seeing this post. http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/f12...t-opinions-about-19-seasons-68004/#post918163 ... #Conq , do you really think 19s are in such a precarious position?

Bwappo said:

To address these two concerns:








I understand that you two felt put on the defensive, and of course you're right to want an opportunity for 39s to step up. I'm saying, be careful that you don't create the very problem you're trying to avoid, by reacting so strongly to others' concerns. I'd rather have a TI owner and Mods who were upfront about their favorite brackets, as long as they didn't try to leverage that to harm other brackets. Bracket repression works against everyone's best interests, and I think Myrm and company seem to understand that, from what I can tell.

Edit: I stand corrected, after seeing this post. http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/f12...t-opinions-about-19-seasons-68004/#post918163 ... #Conq , do you really think 19s are in such a precarious position?

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[MENTION=5141]Myrm[/MENTION] ....any thoughts on the state of 39s and the responses from your mods..... or are you gonna stay silent as usual and focus on 19s?

Great to see more people wanting competitive games and revival of 39s.

It's been an EXTREMELY long time since I've played, and I'm trying to figure out the best way to get involved in 39s again. I have two 39s, both horde. One is a priest, the other is a paladin. I'm pretty set on gear aside from guild heirlooms and a few other items. What's the best way of going about joining in on the fun? Are there any guilds looking? I can definitely transfer most of my characters.