Whoa dudes, tonight was awesome. Can we make this every night?

Kincaide said:

Hehehe, see this is why we frown upon moderator actions being discussed publicly! It just stirs up resentment.

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If it makes you feel any better, I've resented the mod cleanups for months now. I don't have all day to be checking this thread, so coming back to a graveyard because some people got their feelings hurt is disappointing. I thought most of us here were adults, but maybe this f2p community that has graciously accepted our invitation to join our bracket section is full of individuals who's parents need to sign some permission slips.

For what it's worth, I'm not a fan of pointless drama

I played f2p exclusively for more than a year, I probably have 8 geared f2p toons, I played with HB before, I have won games against 24s/29s before on my f2p and know how satisfying it is.

HB is a highly competent flag carrier and he knows all the jumps. The Allies had a good comp and good coordination, so they won. I'm actually glad the balance is *close enough* where coordination and teamwork can win out over brute force.

And like I've always said, it's more important to establish premades as "pickup" games like in basketball. Check the egos at the door, otherwise premades don't happen because everyone's too worried about what people will think about them if they lose.


-GC


P.S. I'll play either side

I get beaten by f2ps all the time =D

spewfeel said:

I get beaten by f2ps all the time =D

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lol Spew. GG all night was great games.

Yeah had some fun games tonight, good to see you again =D

Ohai said:

I thought most of us here were adults,

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ayy lmao

Donteventrii said:

Thanks for the past couple posts.

PG-13 allows for colorful language.

I don't understand the sudden pivot to PG content. Shouldn't TI be most interested in what the userbase wants? It would be an easy test to figure out which side of the fence people prefer. Make a subforum within each bracket that warns that potentially colorful language is inside. If those subforums get all the activity, and the regular ones die - you have your answer.

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Sorry that I just now saw this post. I believe that Shane's concern is less about colorful language, and more about hurtful language. To that end, and due to the points that you all have brought up here, we had a brief conversation behind the scenes. I wrote up a new re-expression of the pertinent parts of the CoC, which focus less on precisely what is said, and more on the intent behind it as you guys wisely put forth. Shane says he will update the CoC shortly with the new verbiage, as soon as all the moderators have seen it and agree and understand the clearer distinctions. I think you will like it.

Y'all have a nice day

Edit: It's live now: http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/f65/update-coc-trolling-flaming-insults-vulgarity-63816/#post860723

Beachcomber said:

For what it's worth, I'm not a fan of pointless drama

I played f2p exclusively for more than a year, I probably have 8 geared f2p toons, I played with HB before, I have won games against 24s/29s before on my f2p and know how satisfying it is.

HB is a highly competent flag carrier and he knows all the jumps. The Allies had a good comp and good coordination, so they won. I'm actually glad the balance is *close enough* where coordination and teamwork can win out over brute force.

And like I've always said, it's more important to establish premades as "pickup" games like in basketball. Check the egos at the door, otherwise premades don't happen because everyone's too worried about what people will think about them if they lose.


-GC


P.S. I'll play either side

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finally a post has been made on this forum by an OG 29 i can actually agree with

Yay
p2ps > f2ps
just accept the bracket is now 29s

thanks

<3

dakoduh77 said:

just accept the bracket is now 29s

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Except it's not. F2ps will always have primacy in whatever bracket they are in, if only due to the sheer numbers. If level cap for f2p was 90, 90s would be the f2p bracket.

The 20-2x bracket has always had p2ps in it to one extent or another, so it's really not any different in that aspect. Whether 29s or f2p are "better" is a matter of perspective. If it's a matter of gear, then 29s definitely win. The average skill of each is a little harder to determine. Obviously a skilled 29 craps on an unskilled f2p, but if the f2p wins, you could probably attribute that to skill because he overcame the disadvantage of having "worse" gear. Of course class/spec is also a big factor, but I'll just eliminate that variable because it's a whole other topic.

However, determining the skill of a p2p, is more difficult to determine because of the advantages the p2p has in gear. If the p2p wins, it could either be gear or skill, so you'll never really be able to tell which. The reason playing a 29 in the f2p bracket isn't fun for me, is precisely because of this fact. I never really know how well I'm doing on a 29, in regular bgs or skirmishes, because I just faceroll through games, succeeding without really trying—never really knowing if I'm playing well.

I'm not saying I good or anything, but I'm always trying to get better, and I need good feedback. I feel like defeating opponents that are matched in both gear and skill (or better) provides me with the best means to that end. Just like sports, if you want to get better, play against someone better than you.

I guess the way around this would be to arrange wargames, or arenas without f2ps to muddle them up. But that, just reeks of effort, and I'd rather just try to revive 19s, so that they get regular pops, than to put effort into something like that. Albino's wargames seem cool though.

I think you need to look up the word primacy. It does not mean more common or in greater number.

Takeo said:

I think you need to look up the word primacy. It does not mean more common or in greater number.

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I'm talking about the most basic of its definitions: the fact of being primary, or of more important. Let's face it, if the f2ps weren't here, the new 29s wouldn't be here. But you can't say the opposite of the f2ps. The f2ps have been in the 20s bracket since summer 2011, they did not come here to face the new 29s.

So: If f2ps, then 29s. If no f2ps, then no new 29s. If 29s, not necessarily f2ps. If f2ps, then obviously f2ps. If 29s, then maybe some more 29s? Probably not that many.

The f2ps are important to existence to the new wave of 29s, but the 29s are not important to existence of the f2ps. When I'm talking primacy, I'm talking about firstness, what has to come before, the grounding of the existence of the bracket. F2ps are the base, without which the bracket would hardly exist, therefore they hold primacy.

By that interpretation of the word, algae holds primacy over the earth. The most basic, root meaning of the word is to hold high office or rank.

Takeo said:

By that interpretation of the word, algae holds primacy over the earth. The most basic, root meaning of the word is to hold high office or rank.

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You talkin' about Primates? Many words have multiple connotations, or meanings. Just because someone uses a word with a different connotation that the one you are most familiar with, doesn't mean it's used incorrectly. You can usually determine which meaning of a word the speaker intends from context if you take the effort to understand, assuming the speaker used the word correctly.

The connotation you are speaking of, is completely valid and correct, but it is not the one I intended. I was not suggesting that f2ps lord over the bracket like the Pope. The connotation I was speaking to was that they came first in the bracket in which they originated, and are primary in importance in whatever bracket they find themselves in, in that without f2ps, hardly any p2ps would be here. The 20-24 bracket was not a thing before joined in summer 2011, and you could probably count the number of 29s on your hands and toes before the brackets merged.

I know you guys get all fussy when someone brings up this point, but you've got to call a spade a spade. If you think that this bracket would even pop without f2p, you're delusional. There's a reason why this bracket is one of the most popular, if not the most. We know why everyone's here, why hide it?

But to go back to your illustration with the algae: I would contend that f2ps are the rock, or the ocean that the algae depends on for life.

In ecology the phrase you are looking for would be a keystone species.

And p2p 29s are either a symbiote or a parasite ;D

Not arguing about f2p being the reason for pops. That's common sense.


pri·ma·cy
ˈprīməsē/
noun

the fact of being primary, preeminent, or more important.
"the primacy of air power in the modern war"
synonyms:greater importance, priority, precedence, preeminence, superiority, supremacy, ascendancy, dominance, dominion, leadership
"the primacy of industry over agriculture"

Yes f2p population is the most important factor for queue times in the 20-29 bracket. But I don't think that context fits the meaning of the word. Look at how it's used in a sentence.

Also the word primate, both as a species and church office has the same root.

Anyway it's not f2p or p2p that hold primacy in this bracket. That would be BM monks and feral Druids

Srs Bsns my current favorite 29 predates the existence of Failed to Pay and she is the 4th or 5th 29 warrior I made. You have no clue about the history of this bracket.

Kincaide said:

In ecology the phrase you are looking for would be a keystone species.

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Yeah the species that all others eat.


Skeezin if your gonna play with people who play feral and spit on people then lag macro and get solo returned on by a warrior who was at 10% for the ENTIRE fight I'm not going to take you seriously. EVER. You want to talk trash in here Learn to play and find a higher class of player to que with. Get 3 capped while playing with cheating scum harder.

At least before Failed to pay was forced on this bracket people didn't lag macro.

Franchi said:

Srs Bsns my current favorite 29 predates the existence of Failed to Pay and she is the 4th or 5th 29 warrior I made. You have no clue about the history of this bracket.



Yeah the species that all others eat.


Skeezin if your gonna play with people who play feral and spit on people then lag macro and get solo returned on by a warrior who was at 10% for the ENTIRE fight I'm not going to take you seriously. EVER. You want to talk trash in here Learn to play and find a higher class of player to que with. Get 3 capped while playing with cheating scum harder.

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pretty sure there was no lag switching was going on in that game, worgen racial on druid is just retardedly fast

you should probably talk to [MENTION=11761]Hunnybuns19[/MENTION] about this as this has nothing to do with me, he was the druid in question

Im sorry that you have mistaken the only time in the game i run faster than any p2p on your team is when i pop worgen speed, but im afraid thats not lag hacking. And yes, I spit on you guys, speed potting 29 arms warrior at bare minimal deserves that. In B 4 pay for game argument.