Should the bracket move away from Bleeding Hollow?

I remember back in Vengeance: Fearfarm, Hook Line N Sinker, Thick as Thieves, Gunslinger, E P I C, DDG(#1), UF(#1), Malthoron Traders Union, Mayhem, Dominate etc. were all guilds who had their full 10 mans, their own styles, their own caliber of players and their own attitudes. Likewise, they also had their own successes and their own failures. If you could think back to BC while considering your own battlegroups, I'm sure you remember multiple guilds putting forth their 10 best players to take on another guild's best players. Back then the bracket was very competitive but also very healthy.

Today many argue that there are too many poor influences on the bracket and/or that this is a different game now. That may be true, but that does not mean that we can't still have a healthy and also competitive bracket. As I consider what we as a bracket should all work towards to ensure a higher level of competitiveness and health inside the bracket bracket, I truly believe the first step should be taken in a direction away from Bleeding Hollow.

As many of you are aware, Bleeding Hollow is the "hub" for 19s. What this means is that a very large percent of the 19 population is on Bleeding Hollow. This has been a very good thing for the bracket, but in my opinion it has been equally as damaging. Why do I consider this to be damaging for the bracket?

Simply put, everyone is there. Numerous guilds have formed over the corse of a week, and lasted only a very, very short time. Guilds began taking stars from another guild, problems have occurred which have disbanded guilds etc. However, once a guild has died, its players either start a new guild or join another guild almost overnight. There have been players who have been in 5+ different guilds over the past 12 months. I believe we need to spread our numbers across different realms of all populations.

Sadly, only 10 players matter when it comes to a guild versus guild premade which is currently the highest level of competition in the bracket. I would like some of you who are located on Bleeding Hollow, to have the courage to start your own guilds and build them from the ground up, preferably on another server.

These newly formed guilds would need to rely on themselves to ensure success, just like how it used to be. Guilds would not only last longer but they would also feel again like a brotherhood. There would also be more of these guilds premade ready.

I would like to hear some counterarguments, supportive comments etc to get a feel for how others in the bracket feel about this idea. I believe having numerous guilds across numerous servers would create a larger community of guilds who are ready for premades.

Like always: Thank you for reading my 2c

​~~Møçhâ~~

yah

can you put a tl;dr section at the bottom? I already read enough for school.

I totally agree. Many people have asked me to come to BH and I've refused (for several reasons).

Also, when people move to BH instead of staying on their home realm to start up twinking guilds, twinking dies out on that server and BH just gets even more twinks. I'm happy to be on Elune as opposed to Bleeding Hollow.

UF always #1 <3

on a serious note I don't understand why people need to x-fer to different servers to premade now that realid groups exist. Allowing these groups as official premades would not only give people who dont necessarily have the money to x-fer to these guilds and chance to premade but it would also get more premades going because lets face it there are none to barely any going. It would strengthen the community as a whole and save people wasting money x-ferring to a guild then ultimately seeing it disband after the first loss.

Can someone give me cliffs?

tence said:

UF always #1 <3

on a serious note I don't understand why people need to x-fer to different servers to premade now that realid groups exist. Allowing these groups as official premades would not only give people who dont necessarily have the money to x-fer to these guilds and chance to premade but it would also get more premades going because lets face it there are none to barely any going. It would strengthen the community as a whole and save people wasting money x-ferring to a guild then ultimately seeing it disband after the first loss.

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Agree, Beantown bullies is a reallly good example of this.

wargames are pretty fun

What is funny to me is people are fighting against a core structure, yet that is exactly what they need to have a group last longer than a strong wind blowing on their straw house.

I am starting up NO MERCY again on Argent Dawn Horde, the former "hub" for 19s, obviously at this point any transferers are welcome and we have open spots for our 10s team if your good enough, message me on Conq alliance AD if your interested, I agree with everything Mocha has said

I can put my lock in but I'm not sure how much it will be played atm.

well as of right now i dont have guild lead, i will pretty soon, but its about getting members who can play ATM not getting people who are 100% active.

I def agree i mean i am currently on Quel Dorei which i must say is a good server for twinking.... At lvl 70 i am the only 19 twink on the server except a few people in my guild and a couple on alli and i mean yes it is a pve server but i think that BH should be left for WT they have ruled the twink bracket and except the best and only the best and everyone that xfers their too early and get rejected ( not that all of you have ) make guilds that dont last, so much of the twinking across other servers have died out and is damaging the bracket also a plus side to pve servers is that you get some pretty good twink items for really cheap compared to for example BH.......

I actually xferred back to cc on cheatz in an attempt to get my old guild up and running again. unfortunately, they're all far gone. so, ive been trying to get a lot of my cc friends into twinking. 1 new blood ret pally is being conceived at this very moment

if you're a twink guild or plan on making 1, it's a good idea to spam trade with guild ads, it not only makes it seem like 19s have a presence on the server but also allows people to consider the fact that people actually do pvp at lvl 19. many people think 19 pvp is dead and/or have never even heard of 19 pvp in the first place. this helps get the word out even if you dont recruit active members. also, remember that 19s were HUGE back in the day. many people just dont play their 19s anymore. seeing a guild ad for a 19 guild may peak their interest and get them back into it.

dont expect instant gratification.

TLDR mocha (not entirely true, i read like half) but to form my own opinion,

I believe that twinking on a server is like growing crops on a farm, with your crops being the players and the earth being the server (i know its corny).

If you look at my server, for example, i have a few twinks in different brackets so me sitting on the bank steps with my glaived rogue, i get comments from people saying like "Wow nice weps, how is 70 twinking?" I mean i don't play it much, but ill generally tell the person a response not too different from "The queue times are great, its a good community as a whole, and a lot of fun!"
I feel like me doing this sparks interest not only on my server, but on twinking as a whole. This was just an example, as i have done this with other brackets as well.

If everyone is on a seperate server, there will be a higher population to pool players from, adding activity to the bracket (even more since "battlegroups" are not what they used to be.

If everyone was on the same server, twinking would be well known on that server sure, but on a server without any twinks, noone will ever hear about it in their WoW career. (even more so since twinks are in different bgs so they won't even get the exposure that brought so many of us into this community)


Sorry for my long post, hopefully someone got somthing out of it

tence said:

I don't understand why people need to x-fer to different servers to premade now that realid groups exist.

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Many people have came up with this point when I have asked some friends to come to Akama, but to me the line should be drawn at guild tag vs guild tag. Imho thats what it should be, <Mayhem> vs <Dominate> for example. When you are pooling Real ID kids, it is basically an all-star team.

Imo if a good player is playing for your A 10 man team, and he has your guild tag, its basically an endorsement or sponsorship, even a jersey if you will.

@Dory, thank you very much for adding to this thread with your very constructive post.

Conq said:

I am starting up NO MERCY again on Argent Dawn Horde, the former "hub" for 19s, obviously at this point any transferers are welcome and we have open spots for our 10s team if your good enough, message me on Conq alliance AD if your interested, I agree with everything Mocha has said

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NO MERCY.

So much memories! I miss Ruin and BC now.

I remember how NM just wrecked the battleground and how they were feared.
I also remember when ally gathered to counter NM with DoA.
Gosh that was good times. We tried in Border Patrol Vs. NM and got wrecked, but gosh we learned from that, so much.

That was good time. Back when there was dozen of fully active guilds. Back when guildies meant something. We were small community. Each guild had their leaders, their annoyers, their funny guys, or even their rarish girls hehe

We were really close back in the days. Knowing each other in-game and out-game. We knew how to have fun when messing around on our mains or on our fail twinks. And we also knew the strenght and weakness of our partners on the battlefield.

We would be extremely active and extremely close, most of the time, just small community from 10-30 players. Extremely close.

That was the good time. Back when premade were happening all the time and that we had A-team and even B-team. There were some top-A guilds and some other weaker. Weaker guilds could fight guilds like them too. That was the good time. Back when, I was in BP and we premaded against tons of guild skill-wisely just like us. We tried against top team, NM, and got wrecked, but we learned and had fun doing it.

I think it could be time, to get the bracket, 15-19 back to it's roots. Back when the crazy fun was happening. Back when WSG was a place to be serious but have tons of fun at the same time. Not something you would do because you had nothing else to do, nor a place to be mad as hell because of GY-Farm, Haters, AFK-ers, Abusers and all the shit that is happening right now.


I think it's time to realize that we shouldn't always try to set guilds to beat WT. Instead we should build guilds to have fun and maybe get another guild to premade that wouldn't wreck us.

Most of the players now wants to be the BEST. Why not just enjoy and do your job on your class? Why should we always promote guilds that have the top-class player in every of their spot? Why just not promote guilds at first and then promote Premade.

I would much rather see several premades per months. By some B or even C classed guilds fighting together then 1 premade per 6 months of two top ranked one. To me, I enjoy watching a premade from some B ranked guild as much or probably even more, then A rank guild. Simply because it's funny to see some mistakes, some strategy mistakes and stuff like that, that B team does. I remember how we had fun, but also, how serious we were in WSG. It was stressful, atleast it was for me. I was trying my best to be the best that I could, I would try to do the least mistakes possible, purge as fast as possible, earthbind at the right moment etc..

At the end, win or lose. We would all laugh and lose our stress. We would make jokes and kid around for a some time and then go to bed. Next morning, wake up, open Vent and have a little chat with guildies before heading to work or school. That was my greatest moments on WoW. I never got these feelings back since Wotlk beginning. Since that, I lost interest over that game over and over.

I can't get to find something to keep me into it. Because, no community is as close as the 19s community was in Vanilla/BC. And that's what I loved in this game.

-Bankbeauty
Former Officer of Border Patrol -Tiboudmarde (#10000 Shammy, #1 having fun with guildies)

Everybody going to one server was super dumb.. but hey, look at the people who play there - it's not hard imagine they'd all end up together.

I'm sure the wargames are a good time, but it does nothing for the overall health of the bracket. We need REAL leaders, starting REAL guilds, and not remakes of garbage guilds like USA (cough)

Im very pleased to see a thread on this finally come up.

It would be great to have some twink leaders in the community to venture out and start their own guilds, rather than following the crowd. With this hopefully the leaders not only take the initiative to try to create their own successful guilds, but guilds that are enjoyable to play in. I can say even though Laughing Skull FTW might not be the "top dog" of the bracket, i have never had a player come through the guild since 2005 that has not enjoyed playing with our family. Keyword. Family.

With this being said, best of luck to the new leaders making their own guilds, try to promote positive gameplay while advancing your guild

Hunnybuns19 said:

Im very pleased to see a thread on this finally come up.

It would be great to have some twink leaders in the community to venture out and start their own guilds, rather than following the crowd. With this hopefully the leaders not only take the initiative to try to create their own successful guilds, but guilds that are enjoyable to play in. I can say even though Laughing Skull FTW might not be the "top dog" of the bracket, i have never had a player come through the guild since 2005 that has not enjoyed playing with our family. Keyword. Family.

With this being said, best of luck to the new leaders making their own guilds, try to promote positive gameplay while advancing your guild

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Well said.