Do you support the recent queue separation for the 20-29 bracket?

I might get a lot of hate for saying this, but I absolutely love the latest change blizzard implemented

1, queues are not materially longer than before.

2, games are more competitive than before. the average quality of players has gone up significantly. i like competitive games. i tried around 5 games so far while gearing up, all of them were close.

3, premade doesn't mean auto-win as much as before (as you are facing a team of twinks). facing less premade as people are still gearing up.

4, more abilities = more fun

5, more gears to choose from = more fun

keep in mind that I just bought a lvl 20 skullflame before they made this change, so i should be pissed about this change, but i honestly am not.

please vote!

I don't support it in the slightest. Admittedly, the whole reason why I enjoy twinking in the first place is to flex on levelers. If I wanted fair games, I probably would have done more wargames. On top of that, I have noticed longer queue times, up to 10 minutes sometimes, but I queue later in the evenings, past primetime.

Overall, I don't think this is healthy for the bracket, because the whole point of the popularity of the 20-29s bracket was because F2Ps/Vets stopped at level 20. If F2Ps/Vet stop queueing, it becomes like every other 30-39, 40-49, x0-x9, bracket and essentially dies. Epic BGs also become inaccessible for this same reason, meaning the only way to access Epic BGs will be to pay a sub, and at that point you're probably better off playing endgame BGs.

I've always been more F2P/vet than actual hardcore twink, so it's a big nada for me.

In summary,
- Not interested in Wargames/Fair Games
- Still, longer queues outside of prime time
- We pretty much lose Epic BG pops

Yummy !

glancealot said:

1, queues are not materially longer than before.

2, games are more competitive than before. the average quality of players has gone up significantly. i like competitive games. i tried around 5 games so far while gearing up, all of them were close.

3, premade doesn't mean auto-win as much as before (as you are facing a team of twinks). facing less premade as people are still gearing up.
4, more abilities = more fun

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1. Yes they are, late night/early morning queues are dead.
2. Nope, its still stomp or flop. The winner is still determined by the the team with more S tier on their side. Before the split a non meta build (or leveler) could still have an impact, now they relegated to cannon fodder.
3. What about the pure f2p who are using crate gear? They are completely meme'd since the change.
4. Meh, the amount of things that are imbalanced as fuck, and the amount of people exploiting that shit for kills has increased.

The random bg crowd who liked to jump on a for a few fun games to test out non meta builds like melee bm hunter are now extinct. The lack of diversity in twinks and comps has made the bracket boring. Battleground after battleground you keep running into the same people playing the same comp..... zzz.

Cool, the old 70s(27s) get to dust off their twink for a few games, and the meta whores get to roll a new 29 - but at the expense of the 20 community. Most days the cross faction channels are very low numbers.

I love how the poll is actually balanced... the split isn't that bad after all huh?

The main reason i support the split is because as a paying player this is the only bracket now who i can do pvp without leveling out at some point. the only way before was xp debuffing but i barely use it...

troublesomesleeper said:

The lack of diversity in twinks and comps has made the bracket boring..

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The lack of diversity in twinks started when blizzard locked all other twinks out of their own bg brackets. It’s not sky is falling now that you get thrown in with the twinks, you are a twink. Welcome to the show

Blackberryy said:

It’s not sky is falling now that you get thrown in with the twinks, you are a twink.

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Twink is too broad of a definition. There are many subcategories of twinks.

1. F2p who has no outside support and uses mostly crate gear
2. Vet who has support from a high level - eliminating the burden of self grind
3. Pve twink who has no interest in pvp
4. Meta whore who only plays the overpowered classes
5. The likes to experiment with off-meta builds for fun #gigachad
6. A member of the premade roster
7. Team soloqueue #gigachad
8. The good enough mindset
9. The balls to the wall full bis chaser
10. The graveyard farming squad
11. The fair fight enthusiasts
*and many more

This change hurt more than helped the majority of this list.

troublesomesleeper said:

Twink is too broad of a definition. There are many subcategories of twinks.

1. F2p who has no outside support and uses mostly crate gear
2. Vet who has support from a high level - eliminating the burden of self grind
3. Pve twink who has no interest in pvp
4. Meta whore who only plays the overpowered classes
5. The likes to experiment with off-meta builds for fun #gigachad
6. A member of the premade roster
7. Team soloqueue #gigachad
8. The good enough mindset
9. The balls to the wall full bis chaser
10. The graveyard farming squad
11. The fair fight enthusiasts
*and many more

This change hurt more than helped the majority of this list.

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At the end of the day, they are all twinks and should all be treated with a blanket brush by blizzard. This is a great change

The change puts a lot of pressure on 20s to sustain the health of the bracket, while at the same time making it less fun to play 20s. IMO it's not a recipe for success. 29s now get pops and they can have their fun at the expense of 20s. This is going to discourage 20s over time, and the bracket will wither. It's not going to die completely because there is a player pool that will queue at the f2p level cap no matter what, but the size of that player pool nothing like having the levelers to keep the queues popping. And as the queues get longer, more people will leave (both 20s and 29s) in a vicious cycle, until you reach a floor where you are just left with the ones who will keep queuing regardless of bracket health.

Having true F2Ps and twinks (Vets) on a level playing field made it more fun to play both, and that cross pollination really drove the popularity up. Coupled with the fact that levelers with enchanted heirlooms or whatever could still be competitive as they reached the higher end of the bracket, it was just more balanced between the different player populations.

The change shrinks the player pool massively and is going to fracture what's left. This whole expansion the twinkers and the f2pers have basically been living in harmony, and now they're going to be at each others throats over 20 vs 29.

A great sign that this is a bad change is that the dumb people are happy.

I think just letting twinks do what they do best is always best... just degenerating into the dumbest animals possible. People don't care about the health of the bracket, what they really want is more items like balefire branch... if we could have two of those on, that is what the bucktoothed-bowl cut kids would use. Let animals be animals, they can't be anything else, its not in their nature.

It's not like 20s was any different. Once everybody has a 29 it won't be so terrible. People just holding on to FTP 20s are worthless now, too bad. Stop putting cheeseburgers into your frothing food hole and buy a 15 dollar sub.

You want there to be an explanation as to why these people are dumb animals, instead of just accepting that they are and will continue to be when there are no consequences. Its just basic Lord of of the Flys, and you are piggy.

This is not a domesticated zoo, this is the jungle. Better alpha up or just go die.

20s. Just keep opening tickets and creating/removing starter edition accounts from your BNET and cite the change.

don’t feed trolls any longer.

Goesid said:

A great sign that this is a bad change is that the dumb people are happy.

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Just a matter of perspective. Farming lvlers and the general uncompetitivness of the bracket was what got me losing interest. Queing up now knowing I will face other twinks personally gets me more excited. I still can understand why people that dont care for competitive games dont like these changes.
The biggest enemy for years now has been the random q and the adding of more bgs anyway. That shit never came out of the bugging zone. I guarantee we would have a 24/7 bracket on 20s xp locked if it was only wsg and ab without random q. So when games die, cry and storm blizz for that removal of bgs. But such efford will never happen. The f2p community never had to do anything. Welcome to the twink struggle now.

Jva said:

Just a matter of perspective. Farming lvlers and the general uncompetitivness of the bracket was what got me losing interest. Queing up now knowing I will face other twinks personally gets me more excited. I still can understand why people that dont care for competitive games dont like these changes.
The biggest enemy for years now has been the random q and the adding of more bgs anyway. That shit never came out of the bugging zone. I guarantee we would have a 24/7 bracket on 20s xp locked if it was only wsg and ab without random q. So when games die, cry and storm blizz for that removal of bgs. But such efford will never happen. The f2p community never had to do anything. Welcome to the twink struggle now.

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Levelers def ruin pugs, but so do 29s. Thats what wargames are for.
Aslong as you are 9 levels above them right?
"Competetive" riiiight.

Goesid said:

Levelers def ruin pugs, but so do 29s. Thats what wargames are for.
Aslong as you are 9 levels above them right?
"Competetive" riiiight.

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Ah na, think I am not known for looking for easy fights and smashing lowbobs. Thats basically what you could have read out of my post already. I want to Face twinks. Im playing 20s and will surely get a 29 going for when a scene will establish and when it makes sense to q up. I wont enjoy running over underpowered 20s no worries.
And btw Wargames in 20s never really got going or were competitive iirc. Maybe a short period in Wod. Rest was 24/29s

The main reason that I like the 29s is that the heals seem like support and not game defining.

Jva said:

Ah na, think I am not known for looking for easy fights and smashing lowbobs. Thats basically what you could have read out of my post already. I want to Face twinks. Im playing 20s and will surely get a 29 going for when a scene will establish and when it makes sense to q up. I wont enjoy running over underpowered 20s no worries.
And btw Wargames in 20s never really got going or were competitive iirc. Maybe a short period in Wod. Rest was 24/29s

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NA played wargames most days through most of BfA and sometimes in SL. EU has had semi active weekly SL wargames for like a year.

24s had like 1 guild wargame in the 4 years it existed. The last time 29s tried to organize something 1 guy signed up to play.

29s are just better to play. not even mad that i just built 17 level 20s in the last 6 months. They can take a break. 29s are fun and LK twinking should be good. Cheers nerds

Outside of just barrel rolling in a mindless premade versus unorganized players I do think the 4400 hp route is necessary. You at least have a chance to take the opening volley/aimed shot and just get healed. If you don't there is not even gonna be a chance for a healer to click on you.

I would just gear for how the 29s wants you to gear and it's at least tolerable.

If you are just rolling in with 3200 hp and are not being carried HARD, you are just gonna die.

I'm living that fulltime dad life right now. Queues dont pop hardly while my boy naps during the week so based on that alone I say naynay.