Do you think wargame is what this bracket needs?

Are Wargames meaningful at 20?


  • Total voters
    49
The wargames have been extremely casual and fun on the nights I have formed them. I cannot speak for the nights I didn't play, but when I form we are first come first serve with spots. Not sure where the impression of sweaty gamers came from. We take literally anyone and play any comp-there was a guardian druid veng DH comp last week LOL. However, while forming the groups we IDEALLY make even teams, which is why it make take some time to form. Maybe the comms are what make you think it's sweaty? I haven't heard anyone be toxic so far, but during the games we try to win so of course it's not just casual conversation. Currently we have players from multiple brackets and levels of experiences all playing the games regularly, which is a good way to help out the newer players.
Wargames may not be for everyone, but I think it is absurd to say it's 'not what the bracket needs'. If you had negative experiences with wargames in the past I highly encourage you give it another shot!

I'll just leave this here: 20s Wargames Discord
 
Wargames 100%

Stomping into levelers has always been pretty pathetic. Someone once best described going up against levelers as being like a guy in a Ferrari racing kids in Toyota Camrys and thinking he's cool. It's really just sad. In years of twinking, there are always people (usually newcomers) who don't get that, which is also kinda sad. But most people learn and grow out of that mindset.

Wargames/skirms are the only way to have competitive games that require skill and coordination; that people play not just their class well, but understand their teammates' classes. You can't get that in pugs, but for a lucky queue, and even then it's questionable.

Definitely agree with folks who are concerned that it can lead to saltiness and over-focus on comps (a few wargamers have offered/asked for more underrepresented specs in comps. I think we'll get there once people settle into it). That comes along with any genuinely competitive effort. Having said that, in the past month of wargames, I've heard mostly chill folks and the least amount of toxicity in years. People have their complaints, but it's not turning sour like it used to. 99% of wargamers have been pretty awesomely chill this expansion.

One thing that I think speaks to the integrity of warmers lately, is that the first thing out of a winning team's mouth when they stomp their adversaries isn't gloating or kek'ing or feeling badass like you often get with twinks pugging randoms; it's "who can we trade/find/class-swap to help out". There are games where 30 seconds into the opening team fight the winning team is unironically asking if they should afk the match because the comps clearly don't work and they don't want to just kek-smash their opponents for 15min. That's good sportsmanship. It's a sign that people care about player experience more than W:L. The same is fundamentally not true in pugs. It's not impossible in pugs; you'll just rarely see it both because of that aforementioned immature Ferrari vs Camry attitude, and also the logistical difficulties of regrouping or faction swapping or whatever and then having to roll the dice on the queue.

And let's not pretend that pugging into randoms doesn't lead to the same complaints about comps most of the time anyway. All you have to do is read posts here or in the in-game community chats. It's mostly complaining about X faction queuing hunter premades into pugs. Fair enough. One great way to never have to complain about premade imbalance is to stop queuing into trash. Wargames offer that path.

Agree that maybe sometimes we could get into wargames a bit faster. But with few exceptions, we've been pretty quick that past month or so. Keep in mind we're coordinating across timezones and continents. When you consider that, it's impressive how well it's working lately. We're at the point where on some nights, there are more than enough players, and people are offering to sit a game or two and then subbing in. That's a sign that wargames are healthy right now.
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Glance, I'll say here what we were all talking about in discord the other night when you were playing Hpal.

I didn't hear a single person who wasn't totally supportive of doing fun builds, and specifically you and your efforts. We were all saying it seemed like a fun setup for pugs sometimes. However, the Hpal speed build and play style just doesn't work in competitive situations like wargames.

Don't let those two games color your opinion too much. It wasn't you, or comps, or hpal. It was just the wrong build. You should definitely still hpal in wargames if you love the class. It'll just require swapping to a different set and you're good to go. Healers almost always have a spot if they want it.

But, But.... muh hipster dps check posts...
 
Relaying what @Dizzen has said, we take anybody or anyone. When we revived plebmades our main goal was to grow the wargame community and teach new faces what it is about. The enjoyment comes from the close games and the even comps that have to be properly formed. Our last few games was kinda lopsided due to the weird comps and playstyles I have never seen before, but from this I can learn what can be changed for a better experience for new and old players that have been wargaming.
Wargames would effectively benefit the 20 bracket if many find random bgs to be somewhat boring and the competitiveness flawed. The imbalance of pugs in factions have changed, although I find it balancing out now due to many having toons on both factions. Although it's first come first serve to get a spot in these wargames, making a guild or having your own comp of 10 people to play wargames would also serve as a great refinement in having a great wargame experience. Also being able to communicate in wargames would also change the outcome of games, so if you are interested in joining these wargames here:

Discord: https://discord.gg/Vq44pEacQ3

World of Warcraft Community: https://blizzard.com/invite/JrEWay7uZly
 
War games are as fun as the people you play with.

People generally lose about 75 social IQ points in any competitive environment because ego supersedes being mature and constructive, and let’s be honest that’s already going to put a few players into the negative.

Of course not everyone is like that, but skill and doing things the right way matters in war games, so there’s always going to be a couple of people who passive aggressively bitch nonstop. Try to extract the occasional bits of constructive criticism. The rest you can just try to tune out.

If you can stomach all that then you’ll learn a shitload about your class and it’s great practice. Few things in wow are more satisfying than a good ass war game with two competent teams, and the feeling of improvement.

If you don’t like the vibe in war games, don’t play them. They will continue with or without you. But if you aren’t having fun then you’re wasting your time regardless.
 
I have played on the <spacebar> 19 roster in classic, so I know what sweaty and competitive coms sound like; I am not confused by shot calling. The impression of sweaty gamers came from the observation of gamers being sweaty.

I am glad that it seems like most experiences run contradictory to what I saw, obviously I have not observed or participated in all of the pleb-mades. It looks like the sweat is a minority. Good pleb-mades are inherently beneficial to bracket growth for allot of reasons.
 
Wargames are pretty fucking fun however I will say that "first come first serve" seems to be a bit of a misnomer.
Invites just seem to go out, I've noticed multiple times where people have made the comment "i didn't even know we were forming"

The few times I played on my priest I didn't have a [Circle of Flame] and it made it hell to heal. (I literally couldn't because I was OOM 60% of the game) So I will give this advice, that helm is pretty much required for healers in these.

as far as level of "sweat" I would say games seem pretty carefree. I would love to go 5 minutes without hearing "x class/spec is trash" and just let the boys play, experimentation is fun and shouldn't be shunned as much as it seems to be.
Example, Fury is WAY more fun than arms... but Arms is a bit stronger. Fury isn't "complete garbage" it still fucking farms lol

Anyway, if I had to ask for anything it would be more transparent teams/invites going out. The Raidhelper Discord bot is hella useful for setting stuff like this up, this allows for true "first come first serve" and we'll even be able to see if we could get MORE THAN 2 TEAMS :POGGERS:
 
Will my enh shaman that only uses bramble staff and ranged spells be allowed to play?
 
To anyone who wants to play fury, enh, whatever... Please come play wargames! I will heal anything. I've been begging to play fire, but these fine folks *cough* cowards *cough* won't let me! Perhaps if we subbed in a few underrepresented specs on both sides, I could sneak in as fire, at which point all will burn :D

All joking aside, with how many games we've played the past month, we've squeezed in a few yolo/weird comps. Could probably squeeze in a few more. But I'm not complaining. Whatever gets the most people playing and having fun.

Would highly recommend people join the wargames discord that Diz and Vito linked, and the in-game community as well. There's room for all kinds of wargames, and the more people that join, the more fun can be had.
 
Wargames don't affect the bracket outside of keeping 20 twinks out of random bg queues.

Sure, the ones who participate become better and can learn to read types of plays but it all comes back to solo-queue vs premade at the same time every day. It's just an elaborate ego-stroke to suggest that wargames make the bracket better, especially in terms of "even" competition. We still see you fuckers out there in your wg teams smashing us, making our peons bitch about twinks, lol.
 
ya i played another wargame on my pally, bad idea.

1, you need https://www.wowhead.com/item=11808/circle-of-flame for wargames, it is mandatory for hpal, i had to constantly visit the resource hut.

2, you don't need https://www.wowhead.com/spell=216868/hallowed-ground for wargames, it doesn't do anything

3, https://www.wowhead.com/item=33782/steady-talasite doesn't do anything in wargames for healers.

4, people pay so much attention to controlling mid that it becomes a 9 vs. 9 brawl, there is minimal strategy from each individual as people stay together as much as possible. in chess terms, from a 2400 chess player, i can say that wargames in this bracket only require 1600 level individual thinking, but some PuGs i have played actually require 2000+ (for example, juking a premade that always stay together)

5, it brings out some elitists whose ego is too fragile for pugs, i.e., they don't wanna group queue to look bad, but aren't confident enough that they will make enough of a difference to turn the tide solo queuing.

might play some more on my druid, but i think wargames are an acquired taste.
 
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but i think wargames are an acquired taste.
they are, i hated them in bfa but they’re a lot better now. At least for warriors.
1, you need Circle of Flame for wargames, it is mandatory for hpal, i had to constantly visit the resource hut.

2, you don't need Hallowed Ground for wargames, it doesn't do anything

3, Steady Talasite doesn't do anything in wargames for healers.
yea, it’s a real shame nobody is around to tell you these things before you waste a bunch of time and resources building suboptimally.

I’m also shocked to learn that someone who thinks 20 hunters have too many keybinds is an International Master chess player.
 
1, you need Circle of Flame for wargames, it is mandatory for hpal, i had to constantly visit the resource hut.
Man, its mandatory for ALL healers. I didn't even think of it in my first one,
"yeah I'll just drink when I need mana... oh we dont have a mage? oh food is disabled in this "rated" game mode? well fuck me then."
 
mana shouldnt be a problem in a mid meta with or without a mage, if ur mid fight isnt happening next to one of the resto huts you're just in a bad wargame
 
guild vs guild is what helps the bracket, not only does it promote competitive gameplay in wargames but it will also affect quing pugs with guildies hoping you run into another premade to outplay them. Casual twinks will see these guild vs guilds and want to join in which builds a bigger community for us. Nothing is better than getting a wsg pop and you see your rival guild 5 man on the other team
 

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