WoD On Use Trinket

enchlol

Legend
Following up on some chat in the discord, it looks like WoD on-use trinkets are giving the full +61 in bgs. I was able to farm up the +mastery, +crit and +haste trinkets and got +61 for all according to the character sheet both while I was naked and when I was wearing my feral gear. (I didn't get the +versatilty trinket to drop but I imagine it behaves the same)

@Chops mentioned he has a suspicion that there might be some strange scaling diminishing returns, but I wasn't able to replicate that in my testing.

Methodology:
Jump into a BG and then equip only the trinket I want to test. Pop it and check character sheet. I also took screen shots while wearing my feral gear both before trinket pop and after. I've only tested on my feral druid, but I don't know why this would be different for other classes.

Conclusion:
For classes that want a big on-use trinket, these look really good.

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i see, basically each class would have a mastery diminishing return threshold of 30%*x_class, for some classes x is 3, so for those classes, you are safe until you hit 90%.

is mastery the only rating where this happens?
 
If you read the thread it notes you also have to take into account that your ratings are treated as level 29 in BG and therefore even farther from the diminishing return threshold, as you get less % per rating point at 29 than you do at 20.

It's difficult to even reach them at 20, let alone significantly diminish at 29.
 
was wondering why some classes easily reach 80%+ mastery despite diminishing returns, never looked into it, now i see. thanks again @mirrorbender
 
enchlol said:
Following up on some chat in the discord, it looks like WoD on-use trinkets are giving the full +61 in bgs. I was able to farm up the +mastery, +crit and +haste trinkets and got +61 for all according to the character sheet both while I was naked and when I was wearing my feral gear. (I didn't get the +versatilty trinket to drop but I imagine it behaves the same)

@Chops

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Click to expand...

any agil user can comment on this ? which would you choose ? this kihra or a normal trinket thats 7 agil/10 mast ? i ask because i havent start playing agil class in 20s yet and a 7agil/10mast seems to give a higher average output.

i calculate in this way, over every 2 min 20 sec (which is 140 sec) period:
kihra will give 4x140 + 61x20 = 560 agil and 1220 mast, that average out about 4 agil 8.71 mast per second
while a normal trinket will maintain a fix output of 7 agil and 10 mast

in a bg, unless no enemy is around and you face a twink foe 1 v 1, a burst trinket for 20 sec would be useful, under a normal bg several player vs several player fight, with healers behind them, the fight will definitely last over 20 sec .. and the trink cannot be used again for another 120 seconds .. which trinket would be a better choice ?

any hunter who is using a 61 mastery burst trink can pls provide the dmg shown on aim shot ?
[doublepost=1615805685,1615805537][/doublepost]
glancealot said:
interesting. according to the article below, you would expierence diminishing returns after 30%, but 16.96%/44 is the same as 40.47%/105

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/diminishing-returns-on-secondary-stats-in-world-of-warcraft
Click to expand...
i think this mastery diminishing returns affects hunters very minimally .. if you can get all/full savant gear, it outweighs anything, with respect to a hunter .. i dont know about other classes
 
Merlin said:
any agil user can comment on this ? which would you choose ? this kihra or a normal trinket thats 7 agil/10 mast ? i ask because i havent start playing agil class in 20s yet and a 7agil/10mast seems to give a higher average output.

i calculate in this way, over every 2 min 20 sec (which is 140 sec) period:
kihra will give 4x140 + 61x20 = 560 agil and 1220 mast, that average out about 4 agil 8.71 mast per second
while a normal trinket will maintain a fix output of 7 agil and 10 mast

in a bg, unless no enemy is around and you face a twink foe 1 v 1, a burst trinket for 20 sec would be useful, under a normal bg several player vs several player fight, with healers behind them, the fight will definitely last over 20 sec .. and the trink cannot be used again for another 120 seconds .. which trinket would be a better choice ?

any hunter who is using a 61 mastery burst trink can pls provide the dmg shown on aim shot ?
[doublepost=1615805685,1615805537][/doublepost]
i think this mastery diminishing returns affects hunters very minimally .. if you can get all/full savant gear, it outweighs anything, with respect to a hunter .. i dont know about other classes
Click to expand...

I think for classes like hunters which have high uptime, the trinket you mentioned is probably better. I play a feral druid which is less about consistent uptime and more about having a specific burst window around 5 CP Bite. This particular trinket buffs bite damage about 24% on-use, so it seems like it's real good for my class specifically.
 
Procs from trinkets, enchants and such are excluded from deminishing return calculation and are not penalized afaik.
 
Infrayellow said:
Procs from trinkets, enchants and such are excluded from deminishing return calculation and are not penalized afaik.
Click to expand...

is this true? if so, this may change some of my gear choices as I run https://www.wowhead.com/item=112160

edit: what @Infrayellow is claiming appears to be false, outside of BG, dueling

131 vers shows 29.23%, 0.223% increase per point.

154 vers (with blackrock proc) vers shows 33.92%, 0.220% increase per point.

so the benefit per point decreased as I broke the 30% threshold
 
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Penalties are as follows:
From 0 to 30%, there's no penalty.
From 30% to 39%, there's a 10% penalty.
From 39% to 47%, there's a 20% penalty.
From 47% to 54%, there's a 30% penalty.
From 54% to 66%, there's a 40% penalty.
From 66% to 126%, there's a 50% penalty.

You can't get more than 126% from gear rating.
These rating penalties work similarly to how progressive tax ratings work. The penalties are only applied based on the stats gained from rating. That means you won't receive any extra penalties by using Bloodlust/ Heroism for instance. Only secondary ratings contribute here. Effects that are penalized by this change are trinkets like Wakener's Frond when you are already inside or near a penalty zone.

Inside OR NEAR penaly zone.

Once again, this isnt something i claim to be true as i never tested it myself, i just googled it.
 
i don't understand what you are trying to say here with your latest reply.

you said

Infrayellow said:
Procs from trinkets, enchants and such are excluded from deminishing return calculation and are not penalized afaik.
Click to expand...

i tested it, and the result is "enchant is not excluded from deminishing return calculation and is penalized".

so what you said is incorrect.
 
glancealot said:
i don't understand what you are trying to say here with your latest reply.

you said



i tested it, and the result is "enchant is not excluded from deminishing return calculation and is penalized".

so what you said is incorrect.
Click to expand...

Im trying to say that maybe you got penalized because you were NEAR penalty zone when you tested it. Maybe, just maybe if you tried the proc while below 29% (idk, 28%?) versatility lets say, you wouldnt be penalized. But idk..
 
still the same, tried at below 28%.

during duel with blackrock proc: 32.72% 148 vers, each point of verse on average is 0.2211%
beginning of duel: 27.89% 125 vers, each point of verse on average is 0.2231%
For comparison: 28.78% 129 vers, each point of verse on average is 0.2231%

so your "near penalty zone" theory is again incorrect.

cannot really go too far below 30% because then the proc wouldn't bring the total vers to above 30% anyway.

thanks though, this is something that is nice to confirm.
 
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