seaturtle
Veteran
Yes, either way the game play will be equal, but much, much different. Which would you prefer? All speed pots or no speed pots? It's an important question since speed pots drastically change the dynamic of WSG.
Consumables in general.
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Yes, either way the game play will be equal, but much, much different. Which would you prefer? All speed pots or no speed pots? It's an important question since speed pots drastically change the dynamic of WSG.
Bowner
Veteran
Speedpot shit is a bandwagon effect, 95% of people who use Swiftness Potions aren't even using them in the best scenarios. But in tournaments/premade's yeah they should be ban but so should elixirs etc. Different realms have different economy's and the point of 19's being best bracket is the purity and purest that makes it balanced. Bombs,Recombs/Bandages are fine and Healing/Mana potions are fairly cheap to on every realm.
jwl
FC - Pagle
This is my take on consumable usage.
*First and foremost, I'd like to address the fact that I've been anti-consumable on retail for years, and I had a really difficult time respecting players that would use them on a regular basis.*
With that said, classic is an entirely different community & atmosphere. Consumables are part of the game, and you are encouraged to take advantage of them throughout your entire leveling process. On retail, resource management isnt an issue whatsoever. In classic, you are pretty much forced to stocking up on both mana/health potions. Which I believe we all can agree on, is completely fair, correct? The controversy here lies within bombs, swiftness potions, and sleep dust.
I personally, have used speed potions on classic. It isnt often I do so, and when I do use them, it isnt for any sort of compensation. It's literally just to get to Point A to Point B at a faster rate. Bombs and sleep dust aren't something that I've ever picked up. I really do see both sides of the fence on this matter, but in PUG games, I really dont care. Of course I find it scummy of someone to speed pot to me 2-3 times a game, hit me with bombs off CD, or sleep dust me as I cross mid...but this thread is titled "consumables in general" which more so is directed towards PUG games, not organized. With that said, why must we have a conversation on this? Player X agrees with consumable usage, while Players Y & Z dont; Does this mean we will officially come to terms and blacklist consumables because the majority dislikes them in PUGs? Because that will NEVER work.
All we can do is control usage in organized games, abide by an agreed ruleset distributed by both parties (not the entire XPOFF community) and shame those that break them publicly on a thread, much like what happened to Mvq.
*First and foremost, I'd like to address the fact that I've been anti-consumable on retail for years, and I had a really difficult time respecting players that would use them on a regular basis.*
With that said, classic is an entirely different community & atmosphere. Consumables are part of the game, and you are encouraged to take advantage of them throughout your entire leveling process. On retail, resource management isnt an issue whatsoever. In classic, you are pretty much forced to stocking up on both mana/health potions. Which I believe we all can agree on, is completely fair, correct? The controversy here lies within bombs, swiftness potions, and sleep dust.
I personally, have used speed potions on classic. It isnt often I do so, and when I do use them, it isnt for any sort of compensation. It's literally just to get to Point A to Point B at a faster rate. Bombs and sleep dust aren't something that I've ever picked up. I really do see both sides of the fence on this matter, but in PUG games, I really dont care. Of course I find it scummy of someone to speed pot to me 2-3 times a game, hit me with bombs off CD, or sleep dust me as I cross mid...but this thread is titled "consumables in general" which more so is directed towards PUG games, not organized. With that said, why must we have a conversation on this? Player X agrees with consumable usage, while Players Y & Z dont; Does this mean we will officially come to terms and blacklist consumables because the majority dislikes them in PUGs? Because that will NEVER work.
All we can do is control usage in organized games, abide by an agreed ruleset distributed by both parties (not the entire XPOFF community) and shame those that break them publicly on a thread, much like what happened to Mvq.
GyTheRogue
Veteran
Kracks
Professional Button Pusher
When did I correlate speedpotting to pedophilia? Jwl isn’t a pedophile because he speedpots. He’s a pedophile because he makes comments about performing sexual acts on children all the time.
Mayfade
Veteran
Same
Attachments
jwl
FC - Pagle
@Blackberryy please delete these derailed, negative comments of me. I never deserved them. Lets keep the conversation on-topic.
New year, new Jwl.
New year, new Jwl.
Kracks
Professional Button Pusher
GyTheRogue
Veteran
walle
Legend
This whole debate is irrelevant, pugs don't matter.
As demonstrated by some of the responses/screenshots, there's no point trying to police random games.
No point getting upset about people using speed pots either.
In the unlikely event that a speed potter finds themself in a competitive game, the get out of jail free bind won't be there. They'll be standing there hamstrung, thinking about how bullshit premade rules are, not knowing what to do next.
Let them learn the hard way.
As demonstrated by some of the responses/screenshots, there's no point trying to police random games.
No point getting upset about people using speed pots either.
In the unlikely event that a speed potter finds themself in a competitive game, the get out of jail free bind won't be there. They'll be standing there hamstrung, thinking about how bullshit premade rules are, not knowing what to do next.
Let them learn the hard way.
Symandria
Legend
Just to throw in a few thoughts : )
Would I want to play were everyone can use consumable XYZ? YES!! Burning gold makes consumables a choice, do I want an edge right now. It's another resource to manage and that's good, most things in PVP have NO CONSEQUENCES death is meaningless. But those speed potions or rocket boots can be gone in the blink of an eye.
Second I'm an O.G. twink, some played to beat levelers, I played to beat the other twinks. Any new thing that was discovered to give and edge was exciting!! : ) Managing 3 sets of gear, 15 types of consumables, leveling a half a dozen alts just to pre-buff my characters is all part of how I choose to go the extra mile to maximize my in game effectiveness. All those are useless without skill ofc, you must learn your matchups, when to go which direction, develop that 6th sense of where the enemy will choose to go before you have information from your team, ect.
I salute those who our out their in BGs rocking it out however they enjoy!! I enjoy taking my character to the limit : ) Each game my goal is to win, and when possible I try to conserve my resources consumed without compromising my goal of victory.
Once upon a time these forums were started to share methods and tricks to be a total badass, and of course to brag here and there. I'm glad we have people like Jamesb contributing great guides : ) Though it's always slightly disappointing to see more and more threads on why we should gimp ourselves (outside of organized play, in which case whatever people want is the best!!).
Randomly: Those who use consumes and are skilled know they can't rely on them, they have cooldowns and you have to pick between them many times. You need to know what it will add, and decide if now is the time to use it or not. When you don't you still need a plan and you learn your options through practice and learning from others what works : )
Would I want to play were everyone can use consumable XYZ? YES!! Burning gold makes consumables a choice, do I want an edge right now. It's another resource to manage and that's good, most things in PVP have NO CONSEQUENCES death is meaningless. But those speed potions or rocket boots can be gone in the blink of an eye.
Second I'm an O.G. twink, some played to beat levelers, I played to beat the other twinks. Any new thing that was discovered to give and edge was exciting!! : ) Managing 3 sets of gear, 15 types of consumables, leveling a half a dozen alts just to pre-buff my characters is all part of how I choose to go the extra mile to maximize my in game effectiveness. All those are useless without skill ofc, you must learn your matchups, when to go which direction, develop that 6th sense of where the enemy will choose to go before you have information from your team, ect.
I salute those who our out their in BGs rocking it out however they enjoy!! I enjoy taking my character to the limit : ) Each game my goal is to win, and when possible I try to conserve my resources consumed without compromising my goal of victory.
Once upon a time these forums were started to share methods and tricks to be a total badass, and of course to brag here and there. I'm glad we have people like Jamesb contributing great guides : ) Though it's always slightly disappointing to see more and more threads on why we should gimp ourselves (outside of organized play, in which case whatever people want is the best!!).
Randomly: Those who use consumes and are skilled know they can't rely on them, they have cooldowns and you have to pick between them many times. You need to know what it will add, and decide if now is the time to use it or not. When you don't you still need a plan and you learn your options through practice and learning from others what works : )
Frogturtle
Veteran
I had a discussion about this last night with a couple people who brought up good points. Thought I'd share them here.
In retail, consumables cannot be used in war games. For this reason, anyone who used them in pugs was considered 'bypassing the rules of competitive play' and looked down upon (with consistent accuracy) as a noob.
This ideology traveled with a lot of retail twinks during the exodus to Classic. However, in Classic, they are not banned in war games, because there is no built-in mechanism for actual war games.
Retail war gamers carried over their rules, while others choose to adhere to the laws of the game itself (or rather, lack of laws) and utilize what is not restricted by the game in any capacity.
At 60, it seems many people use consumables, even skilled players. It's arguable that if everyone used consumables at 19, the meta may become more interesting. It's also possible it would be awful, which is my stance - but not necessarily the correct stance until proven.
The bigger problem is that there is not a skill-based meta for consumables. Almost every usage of a consumable, particularly speed pots, is to compensate for a dumb decision making process that resulted in a mistake. Bypassing the learning experience from that mistake perpetuates poor play, hence why people who crutch on consumables consistently lose against players who don't in organized play.
However, if they WERE skillfully used in a more item-based meta, and used by everyone, it may make the game more interesting. Once again, I am much more interested in what someone can do within the constraints of their character's class abilities/equipped items.
Ultimately however, one factor is overlooked. Blizzard themselves banned them from every competitive format on retail. The developers of our game later decided that items were not conducive to competitive play (and many other games share this philosophy.)
TLDR; do we want to adhere to Blizzard's competitive ideology that later emerged in expansions following Vanilla, or do we want to take advantage of the fact that this 'obsolete' version of the game (Classic) is absent of those restraints?
In retail, consumables cannot be used in war games. For this reason, anyone who used them in pugs was considered 'bypassing the rules of competitive play' and looked down upon (with consistent accuracy) as a noob.
This ideology traveled with a lot of retail twinks during the exodus to Classic. However, in Classic, they are not banned in war games, because there is no built-in mechanism for actual war games.
Retail war gamers carried over their rules, while others choose to adhere to the laws of the game itself (or rather, lack of laws) and utilize what is not restricted by the game in any capacity.
At 60, it seems many people use consumables, even skilled players. It's arguable that if everyone used consumables at 19, the meta may become more interesting. It's also possible it would be awful, which is my stance - but not necessarily the correct stance until proven.
The bigger problem is that there is not a skill-based meta for consumables. Almost every usage of a consumable, particularly speed pots, is to compensate for a dumb decision making process that resulted in a mistake. Bypassing the learning experience from that mistake perpetuates poor play, hence why people who crutch on consumables consistently lose against players who don't in organized play.
However, if they WERE skillfully used in a more item-based meta, and used by everyone, it may make the game more interesting. Once again, I am much more interested in what someone can do within the constraints of their character's class abilities/equipped items.
Ultimately however, one factor is overlooked. Blizzard themselves banned them from every competitive format on retail. The developers of our game later decided that items were not conducive to competitive play (and many other games share this philosophy.)
TLDR; do we want to adhere to Blizzard's competitive ideology that later emerged in expansions following Vanilla, or do we want to take advantage of the fact that this 'obsolete' version of the game (Classic) is absent of those restraints?
GyTheRogue
Veteran
#nochanges
jwl
FC - Pagle
At the end of the day, people are going to play the way they want.
Consumable usage is NOT frowned upon by the community, it is frowned upon by a percentage of the community.
We can not enforce any rules on consumables in random games, so there is no reason as to why this should even be discussed.
Personally, getting speed potted on or bomb stunned once a game doesn't bother me; Its when the same player uses them off CD where it does. All we can do is shame those that do use them generously.
Consumable usage is NOT frowned upon by the community, it is frowned upon by a percentage of the community.
We can not enforce any rules on consumables in random games, so there is no reason as to why this should even be discussed.
Personally, getting speed potted on or bomb stunned once a game doesn't bother me; Its when the same player uses them off CD where it does. All we can do is shame those that do use them generously.
OP
OP
Hired
Grandfathered
The people that defend usage are the people who pop them when they've been outplayed. The people who are bitching about the shitlords who use them
Ily tennis
Ily tennis
Frogturtle
Veteran
i still miss you trigs
[doublepost=1577998504,1577998131][/doublepost]
TBH and speaking for myself, I'd be totally unopposed to banning bombs.
Ichi
Legend
I play expecting everyone to cheat, and thus enjoy the game when they don't.
I also expect people to use what ever is in game to help them achieve their win. telling people they cant use potions outside of premades is kin to telling people they cant use enchants bc you wont.
/s I don't like your 100hp libram to head and legs. plox don't use so I ez win and stop trying so hard. /s
I also expect people to use what ever is in game to help them achieve their win. telling people they cant use potions outside of premades is kin to telling people they cant use enchants bc you wont.
/s I don't like your 100hp libram to head and legs. plox don't use so I ez win and stop trying so hard. /s