Any good Vanilla 29 rogue guides out there?

So I haven't played WoW in close to 9 years, but the announcement of Classic has made me want to come back - but this time just focus on twinking since I don't have enough free time to end game raid anymore.

My Vanilla days were spent end game raiding with my 60 rogue, and I didn't really get into twinking until TBC (where I made my 29 twink rogue - see sig).

Are there any key differences I should be aware of between Vanilla and TBC, in regards to 29 twink rogues? Does anyone have the BiS gear/enchant lists from Vanilla for 29 rogues? And does anyone know what the preferred talents were back then?

I want to say I went with something like 15/0/5 for talents, as I remember being very ambush and backstab heavy with daggers. I could be mis-remembering, though.

Also, with my sig - ignore the Outlaw/Swords I'm currently showing. I've been trying the retail twinking scene over the free weekend and Outlaw/Swords seems like the combo of choice at the moment.

In TBC, I used the following daggers:
MH: Claw of the Shadowmancer w/ +3 Weapon Damage
OH: Sentinel's Blade w/ +4 Agility

Was just curious if copying my sig would pretty much net me BiS for the Vanilla days (assuming I switch back to the above daggers), or if there was a better alternative I should consider?

Thoughts?

in TBC you would have used +5 wpn dmg and +15 agi, we had rogues in our guild using two daggers you list. they ran something like this https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fhxb0oZZG0L

rogue stealth is not what it is now, also movement is way slower. with that build you will be seen, and have a hard time getting set up behind a target

@29 and lower i went combat spec, @29 using sword/mace something like this https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fhxboLZMZh. @39+ sub spec

shanker said:

in TBC you would have used +5 wpn dmg and +15 agi, we had rogues in our guild using two daggers you list. they ran something like this https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fhxb0oZZG0L

rogue stealth is not what it is now, also movement is way slower. with that build you will be seen, and have a hard time getting set up behind a target

@29 and lower i went combat spec, @29 using sword/mace something like this https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fhxboLZMZh. @39+ sub spec

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Shanker - I appreciate the reply. When you say "rogue stealth is not what it is now," what do you mean exactly? That stealth back in Vanilla was worse than TBC? Or that Vanilla stealth is not as good as retail? I've only played Vanilla and TBC, and stopped after that. So that's all I have to go on. I ran daggers and a backstab/ambush build in TBC, and seemed to do fine, so I'd mainly be interested to hear in changes to stealth between Vanilla and TBC.

Magic815 said:

Shanker - I appreciate the reply. When you say "rogue stealth is not what it is now," what do you mean exactly? That stealth back in Vanilla was worse than TBC? Or that Vanilla stealth is not as good as retail? I've only played Vanilla and TBC, and stopped after that. So that's all I have to go on. I ran daggers and a backstab/ambush build in TBC, and seemed to do fine, so I'd mainly be interested to hear in changes to stealth between Vanilla and TBC.

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he means that stealth fucking sucks and you gimp your team by sitting in stealth moving around in that 60% speed and trying to get behind 108% speed targets for an ambush (unless you spec into camo 15% improved speed and even then its 85% speed) being unable to catch any non mongoloid target

Rogue literally plays like a fury warrior in 19/29

#1 – https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fZG0Edb (zealot MH, fast OH) this is the best Rogue spec in vanilla in most scenarios. It provides a lot of utility and sustained damage. Imp gouge and imp sprint are pretty much a must in a bracket where where Mage FCs are super powerful.

#2 – Something like this works good in premades: https://classicdb.ch/?talent#f0ebRxZM (zealot MH, fast OH), where your job is to keep expose up on the target at all time. Ideally you'd have another rogue besides you who would spec into imp sprint to keep the target slowed. For PuG matches this spec is super frustrating to play, though.

#3 – https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fZGcMobZVM (daggers) this spec is, IMO, the funniest one. It's really good for bursting down spellcasters and/or healers but pretty much requires you to keep a close-to unlimited amount of thistle teas to be viable.

So in in conclusion, #1 is the spec you'll be most useful playing in 9/10 PuG WSGs; #2 is a pretty much a niche premade spec that requires you to have good melee players around you who'll be on the same target as you; and #3 offers big crit and a lot of burst but won't work well against mail classes or 1v1s.

A couple things here: Daggers was perfectly reasonable in most forms of 29s. You had to be good with positioning, but health pools were significantly smaller relative to damage dealt, so burst was better. As stated above, generally you would avoid mail wearers. I personally preferred https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fZGcZV0xM IIRC. You can flex that 3rd backstab crit to ambush crit chance if you want, but realistically this is the most 'stable' daggers build.

Strong MH dagger options were Claw as you listed as well as Torturing Poker from SM, which is going to be weaker for burst damage but comparable/stronger for sustains when you're controlling mid and out of stealth. One dagger that hasn't been mentioned yet is: https://classic.wowhead.com/item=776/vendetta. No weapon speed normalization means that 1.3 attack speed is king for applying poisons in your OH.

For sword specs I agree with almost everything posted above, including the fact that you want Zealot MH with a fast OH (still vendetta for me). I also strongly agree that you want to firmly be in combat, with 20 combat being the default 'best' spec there. The expose spec isn't bad if you are strictly support, but as the person above me accurately stated that spec is only reasonable if you have other strong DPS to take advantage of your exposes. The only option I would offer that hasn't been mentioned here for swords is: https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fG0cZG0V0b. This spec is fine for a pug swords build if you want to run double lifestealing. Keeping up SnD basically indefinitely while stacking stam and having double Lifestealing will give you a good amount of sustainability in a pug where you won't normally get a lot of healing.

imo there are hardly better guides than this one here on mmo, they even share their own take on rouge at the bottom in summary, all seems pretty decent to me