EU+US Questions that make the brain hurt (F2P Warrior)

Estradiol

Estradiol

Veteran
I put warrior in the title, because I know how to drop out chops :p But I'll take all advice/help.

I got fed up with playing all other classes and even if it isnt game breaking, I was a warrior when the servers first turned on way back in 04 and warrior is still my love, so I am making me a nice female tauren warrior.

So, first off, lets talk stats. Very few dispute the usefullness of versatility. Plate vers gear is very scarce it seems for the F2P player. Horde specific, the Krom'gar gear. Is the conversion of 1 (primary) = 2.5 vers the same for strength as I have seen posted in other threads?

Mainly trying to weigh the pros and cons of using the 12 str krom'gar boots and regular dungeon/satchel boots with more balanced spread of stats.

Str vs Stam for PvP?

Although the patch opened up some potential better choices, I will use the old awsome sword for the discussion: Executioners Sword, a whopping 12 str (x2 if fury) so, is there ever a point where you should sacrifice some str for a decent life total so local arcane mage doesnt damn near 1 shot you? If so, what would you consider a reasonable life total/str/vers balance?

Fury vs Arms and math that makes my brain hurt.

Ok so arms MS, 25% reduced healing, the bread and butter of max level pvp, loved it back when I played on a paid account. With vers being so wide spread in the 20-29 bracket (among others) how exactly would that math play out? (assuming for ease that said healer has 10% vers)

Would the MS only count the base value of the heal without the added bonus (100 - 25% = 75 + 10[vers] = 85)
Or, would MS affect the entire heal with the vers bonus added? (110 - 25% = 82.5 [rounded whichever way])

That may seem insignificant at first til you factor in things like Hots and fast cast big heals/swiftmend etc.

Is the DPS loss of going arms over fury made up for with the -25% healing debuff?

Looking forward to some discussion!
 
Fury > Arms for random BGs. Arms can be more useful in arena, but less bursty. Overall the damage loss is not worth it, imo. Not outside of arena, class specific duels, or premades.

Str > Stam all the way, no question. That being said, I definitely wouldn't go full glass cannon and just stack all strength. But it can be a ton of fun if you have a pocket healer to have a full Str set for BGs. :)
 
I have more fun with arms personally, but would agree fury is probably more effective, especially in randoms.

Executioner's Sword is good as a fury off-hand for pure strength, but using it in the main hand isnt good tho though because some of your abilities scale with weapon damage. And absolutely go with the krom'gar strength boots.
 
Estradiol said:
Although the patch opened up some potential better choices, I will use the old awsome sword for the discussion: Executioners Sword, a whopping 12 str (x2 if fury) so, is there ever a point where you should sacrifice some str for a decent life total so local arcane mage doesnt damn near 1 shot you? If so, what would you consider a reasonable life total/str/vers balance?
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Executioner's sword is easy to get and has lots of str for fury offhand - but you'll want to replace it with a pacifier.

Estradiol said:
Ok so arms MS, 25% reduced healing, the bread and butter of max level pvp, loved it back when I played on a paid account. With vers being so wide spread in the 20-29 bracket (among others) how exactly would that math play out? (assuming for ease that said healer has 10% vers)

Would the MS only count the base value of the heal without the added bonus (100 - 25% = 75 + 10[vers] = 85)
Or, would MS affect the entire heal with the vers bonus added? (110 - 25% = 82.5 [rounded whichever way])

That may seem insignificant at first til you factor in things like Hots and fast cast big heals/swiftmend etc.

Is the DPS loss of going arms over fury made up for with the -25% healing debuff?
Click to expand...

Pretty sure that mortal strike comes into the calulation after all the healing side is done. So if something was going to heal for 1000, it would heal for 750. And if it was going to heal for 100, 75.

Can't really speak about the f2p/vet meta, but I'll note that there are many complaints about how prevalent healers are, so some mortal strike effects might not be a bad idea.
 
Estradiol said:
I put warrior in the title, because I know how to drop out chops
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Am I that predictable?

As for str v stam v vers... Im not sure I'd give up the chunk of stam on boots and weapons to run another couple str. You are, after all, playing a melee toon in a ranged meta and you have no ability to disengage. Going glass cannon str is a pretty bad move.

As for Mortal Strike, if calculations still act like they did in BC (the last time I cared) then your total output is calculated before your targets modifiers are accounted for. IE total healing is calculated and then weighted against the debuff.

If I understand your question correctly, you would like to know if the less healing can make up for the decreased DPS of arms? Well good news for those of us who dont like out brains hurting...

Arms got a stealth buff in a hot fix a couple months ago that increased damage of MS, slam, and overpower by 8%. I theorized at the time that this might close the DPS gap between the two specs. According to my absolutely not at all scientific testing I just did, I was largely right. With my current gear set up (17 crit, 12 haste, 12 vers), Arms did about 98-99% of the DPS of fury but could peak significantly higher if I double stacked the overpower buff and saved some rage for a timely rage dump. The burst is honestly pretty scary, esp if you luck into a sudden death proc in the middle of that rage dump.

There doesnt seem to be a considerable DPS difference between the two, though arms requires a bit more attention to rotation (its rotation is also really clunky and rage hungry and I hate it). So you dont have to worry about MS making up the difference.

Arms is a powerful choice for a F2P warrior and I hope to see more of them.
 
Chops said:
Am I that predictable?

As for str v stam v vers... Im not sure I'd give up the chunk of stam on boots and weapons to run another couple str. You are, after all, playing a melee toon in a ranged meta and you have no ability to disengage. Going glass cannon str is a pretty bad move.

As for Mortal Strike, if calculations still act like they did in BC (the last time I cared) then your total output is calculated before your targets modifiers are accounted for. IE total healing is calculated and then weighted against the debuff.

If I understand your question correctly, you would like to know if the less healing can make up for the decreased DPS of arms? Well good news for those of us who dont like out brains hurting...

Arms got a stealth buff in a hot fix a couple months ago that increased damage of MS, slam, and overpower by 8%. I theorized at the time that this might close the DPS gap between the two specs. According to my absolutely not at all scientific testing I just did, I was largely right. With my current gear set up (17 crit, 12 haste, 12 vers), Arms did about 98-99% of the DPS of fury but could peak significantly higher if I double stacked the overpower buff and saved some rage for a timely rage dump. The burst is honestly pretty scary, esp if you luck into a sudden death proc in the middle of that rage dump.

There doesnt seem to be a considerable DPS difference between the two, though arms requires a bit more attention to rotation (its rotation is also really clunky and rage hungry and I hate it). So you dont have to worry about MS making up the difference.

Arms is a powerful choice for a F2P warrior and I hope to see more of them.
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As much as I would love to have a useful debuff, that rage problem is serious, one extra slip of the keyboard and youre sitting on auto attacks, fury I never ever run out.
 
Estradiol said:
Ill only go prot if we ever get enough for some AV games.
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Yeah, for sure. Or IOC.

To be honest, we don't really hit hard nor are we that great. We have decent mobility, though. Can make for fun FC work.

I just enjoy playing under-played specs. That, and I had good luck with prot gear on this toon.
 
Chops said:
Probably something to be said for prot in AB
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Honestly, I can be very productive in BGs as prot.

Given the mobility, and durability? It's pretty easy to get people to fall for all going after me to distract them/peel them off people. It can be pretty useful to help others cap.

Shield Slam hits a bit harder than it did for a while, but is a far cry from the nuke it used to be. But for some reason, Thunderclap hits pretty hard. Not hard comparatively to anything fury/arms has to offer, but it's decent and can take some people with low health out if timed right.

That being said, I'm pretty sure at this bracket anyone can play productively in BGs and contribute. So long as they aren't just trying to put up a ton of KBs, and actually are goal oriented.
 
Celax said:
Honestly, I can be very productive in BGs as prot.

Given the mobility, and durability? It's pretty easy to get people to fall for all going after me to distract them/peel them off people. It can be pretty useful to help others cap.

Shield Slam hits a bit harder than it did for a while, but is a far cry from the nuke it used to be. But for some reason, Thunderclap hits pretty hard. Not hard comparatively to anything fury/arms has to offer, but it's decent and can take some people with low health out if timed right.

That being said, I'm pretty sure at this bracket anyone can play productively in BGs and contribute. So long as they aren't just trying to put up a ton of KBs, and actually are goal oriented.
Click to expand...

Not to mention TC, an AoE 20% slow
 
Celax said:
I just enjoy playing under-played specs. That, and I had good luck with prot gear on this toon.
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Same reason I play Prot atm. Couldn’t play it competitively pre8.1.5, but now it’s decent given the reduced quality in general of bg’s.
Funnily enough, my dps on my Prot is equivalent to my BM Huntard in bg’s.
I’m scared to play Fury as it’s just off the charts.
Just starting to shudder as I recall a Fury with his double Saders up charging my Huntard with all his escapes and trap unavialable..... don’t ask please how that ended :eek:
 
Fury for bgs for survivability. I would stack as much fucking vers as possible get bloodthirst to 4 sec cd then stack the remainder crit. Also stamina is important you want to be pretty tanky good thing you rolled tauren it will help massively.
 
tbh i think arms outpaces fury when no enchants are involved, but with enchants fury wins out by a mile. and like the others said str/vers > stam every time but dont go full out glass cannon or youre going to be very sad
 
icehawk said:
Same reason I play Prot atm. Couldn’t play it competitively pre8.1.5, but now it’s decent given the reduced quality in general of bg’s.
Funnily enough, my dps on my Prot is equivalent to my BM Huntard in bg’s.
I’m scared to play Fury as it’s just off the charts.
Just starting to shudder as I recall a Fury with his double Saders up charging my Huntard with all his escapes and trap unavialable..... don’t ask please how that ended :eek:
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I've been doing really good with BM in BGs, honestly. Usually around 10-15 KBs and a max of 2-3 deaths, usually 0. Gear is pretty bad, too. Honestly, I'm just more used to the spec and better with it than I am MM/Surv. =/ Not sure why, but I kind of stink with Surv/MM comparatively, even though they are much better.

Fury just wrecks. As long as you have some decent weps, it just destroys people. My Fury set isn't the best or nearly as good as my Prot, but it's incredibly easy to 1v1 pretty much anyone, and honestly isn't hard at all. Prot, on the other hand...Definitely need to have some skill. :p
 
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