Rogues - how is Sub and Assassination

Eyigud

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Hi all,

I like a challange so im not much for FOTM classes, however í dont like to have around 0% chance against sum classes no matt er how good/bad ive played ( affl lock vs Fury for an example).

Only twinks i see around are Outlaw. I just Find that spec so f-ing slow pace and boring. Assassination obv is the strongest at max level, since i dont see any mutil rogues out there (or sub for that matter) im guessing they suffer for the lack of Mastery/Venomous wounds and dots hardly tickle?

Sub/assassination mid/lower tier in the bracket?
 
I'm pretty sure one of them is viable but I can't remember. Either way I recommend it. It's 10x more engaging then outlaw. It's a fuck ton of marcos though and takes some practicing to get use to. You will need macros for Shadow step+kick/kidney/cheap/smoke and a couple more.
 
All specs on all classes are viable in 49 bracket if you know how to play them. I've played all three specs on rogue and all are great damage, but not as much as other classes damage output. CC is huge as rogue.
 
I’ve played rogue since BC and mastered all 3 specs pve and PvP (2500 2v2 and 3v3 )

My least favorite spec is Outlaw.

That being said, at 49 it is a mistake to play anything other than outlaw.

You should have macros in general for any spec you play but it’s not going to do anything for damage.

I hit 1500+ Dispatches on my rogue and never have any issues killing anything (twink or non twink). Having gouge is huge at this level as it acts as another interrupt / stall to pool energy.

Copy my rogue spec and you’ll have the most fun at 49 possible on a rogue.

I will go into the pitfalls of the other specs :

Asn: starved for energy. Mut has high energy cost and you don’t have anything to regenerate energy quickly. On top of that you’re based around bleeds and poison for damage which is great but not needed for this bracket. Why wait 22 s to deal 1k damage when you can just do it instantly as outlaw. Also, defensively you are missing grappling hook which is the only way to escape reliably.

Sub: actually has good damage and cc while CDs are available , but is a wet noodle outside of that. Also, even with all CDs available you still are outdamage by outlaw.

To put it simply, at 49 outlaw provides more damage, cc, and survivability than any other spec.

If you play it correctly you’ll never not have a great time.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/bleeding-hollow/Wammedlol
 
wam said:
I’ve played rogue since BC and mastered all 3 specs pve and PvP (2500 2v2 and 3v3 )

My least favorite spec is Outlaw.

That being said, at 49 it is a mistake to play anything other than outlaw.

You should have macros in general for any spec you play but it’s not going to do anything for damage.

I hit 1500+ Dispatches on my rogue and never have any issues killing anything (twink or non twink). Having gouge is huge at this level as it acts as another interrupt / stall to pool energy.

Copy my rogue spec and you’ll have the most fun at 49 possible on a rogue.

I will go into the pitfalls of the other specs :

Asn: starved for energy. Mut has high energy cost and you don’t have anything to regenerate energy quickly. On top of that you’re based around bleeds and poison for damage which is great but not needed for this bracket. Why wait 22 s to deal 1k damage when you can just do it instantly as outlaw. Also, defensively you are missing grappling hook which is the only way to escape reliably.

Sub: actually has good damage and cc while CDs are available , but is a wet noodle outside of that. Also, even with all CDs available you still are outdamage by outlaw.

To put it simply, at 49 outlaw provides more damage, cc, and survivability than any other spec.

If you play it correctly you’ll never not have a great time.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/bleeding-hollow/Wammedlol
Click to expand...


yassss....Copy this guy cause he absolutely WRECKS in bgs.....crazy stuff. GGS @wam You have toasted several of my 49s! :)
 
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Xhell said:
heya poppa, cleatuss here. How is 49 in your opinion? I have 49 rogue and ret that isn’t geared yet. both horde
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I know you asking poppa, but I would say 49 is really fun for a few different reasons.

1. 3 talents available
2. 1 honor talent available
3. Few (if any) major defensive CDs
4. Fast, versatile, and incredibly entertaining gameplay.
5. Also, rets and rogues both strong
 
Yup, what @wam said! I only ran sub with my rogue cause you know i like those off specs. Great burst and lots of cc, it was TONS of fun and very viable. The 49s queues started getting too long for me, but Ill come back if they pick up some. I havent done any ret at 49, but ret at 39 was super strong.
 
wam said:
I’ve played rogue since BC and mastered all 3 specs pve and PvP (2500 2v2 and 3v3 )

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/bleeding-hollow/Wammedlol
Click to expand...

I think I'm going to fire back on using death from above. I always used control is king because of the huge dmg it gave from all the surrounding CC. I also just checked Icy veins before I made this comment and it has control is king as one of the two mandatory honor talents and death from above doesn't even make a spot in situational.

Maybe because adrenaline rush is not an ability at 49 people just assume the honor talent is not active.

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/outlaw-rogue-pvp-guide
 
Personally I find that mut feels really bad pre venomous wounds at lvl 50, subs eviscerate is weak until 56 when you get rank 2. Outlaw has more reliable damage and energy generation up until 50. Idk I feel like if you want to play sub moving up to 59 might feel a lot better. Not that sub is bad at 49 from my personal experience with rogue.
 
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Mitch said:
I think I'm going to fire back on using death from above. I always used control is king because of the huge dmg it gave from all the surrounding CC. I also just checked Icy veins before I made this comment and it has control is king as one of the two mandatory honor talents and death from above doesn't even make a spot in situational.

Maybe because adrenaline rush is not an ability at 49 people just assume the honor talent is not active.

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/outlaw-rogue-pvp-guide
Click to expand...


DFA is a gap closer and you are immune to CC during it. Control is king isn’t necessary. Icy veins is a dps site. This is PvP not pve your target won’t be a dummy. You don’t have much target uptime as a rogue. I’ve tried all the honor talents and DFA just towers above the rest. How else are you expecting to camp the spawn of EoTS and Silvershard? Can’t grapple up there. Just gear your 49 and try for yourself but I’d never lose or be out damaged by a rogue using control is king cs DFA.

Pro tip : don’t use icy veins for anything
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Mitch said:
I think I'm going to fire back on using death from above. I always used control is king because of the huge dmg it gave from all the surrounding CC. I also just checked Icy veins before I made this comment and it has control is king as one of the two mandatory honor talents and death from above doesn't even make a spot in situational.

Maybe because adrenaline rush is not an ability at 49 people just assume the honor talent is not active.

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/outlaw-rogue-pvp-guide
Click to expand...


You’ll also probably notice most rogues using vigor over mark for death. Makes me lol.

Anyway tbh not really going to argue why I build the way I do - just telling you the facts on what’s best but ultimately you can choose to go the beta route if that’s what you feel works best for you.
 
wam said:
just telling you the facts on what’s best but ultimately you can choose to go the beta route if that’s what you feel works best for you.
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Opinions are not facts bud. Besides the fact that guide says PVP how about you go look at every bg arena rogue 2k plus https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/pvp/leaderboards/3v3

0% of them are using death from above and about 90% of them are using control is king.
 
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@Mitch True, but you're comparing apples to oranges. First, that's for endgame, where playstyle, gearing, and survivability are quite a bit different from what's on the table at 49. Second, that's for 3s--BGs often call for a different build or set up.

For example, I don't think you'll find a single mage in the 3v3 leaderboards who runs something other than Shimmer. But I don't run shimmer at 49 for several reasons: first, as a clothie in a world where the most prevalent CC is a stun, I need a reliable escape with a short CD. If I don't have blink or trinket up and I get stunned at 49, I'm likely dead--this is a bursty, high-damage bracket, with a much lower TTK than endgame. As fire, I run blast wave because it's a useful (and nearly always surprising) knockback and instant damage spell. I've found that talent setup much more beneficial for BGs in the 49s bracket--it helps me secure knockoff kills in AB and EOTS, acts as a pseudo-interrupt, and sometimes gives that last bit of on-demand damage to finish off an FC. In 3s, though, you need shimmer for better positioning to get off a clutch poly on the pillar-humping healer, plus you have two teammates who are tremendously concerned with your survival. You're also much less likely to die in a stun at endgame. So there, shimmer is the clear choice for multiple reasons.

@wam gave some pretty good reasons for why he uses DFA in 49 BGs, and I'll vouch that he knows what he's talking about.

wam said:
DFA is a gap closer and you are immune to CC during it. Control is king isn’t necessary. Icy veins is a dps site. This is PvP not pve your target won’t be a dummy. You don’t have much target uptime as a rogue. I’ve tried all the honor talents and DFA just towers above the rest. How else are you expecting to camp the spawn of EoTS and Silvershard? Can’t grapple up there. Just gear your 49 and try for yourself but I’d never lose or be out damaged by a rogue using control is king cs DFA.
Click to expand...

TL;DR: 49 BGs=/=endgame 3s, and the best talent choices for twink pvp may not always follow conventional, endgame wisdom. Pick your talents and gear based on actual experience and what works best for you, not on what other players in different situations are running, and certainly not based on what a guide has to say.
 
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Mitch said:
Opinions are not facts bud. Besides the fact that guide says PVP how about you go look at every bg arena rogue 2k plus https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/pvp/leaderboards/3v3

0% of them are using death from above and about 90% of them are using control is king.
Click to expand...


You are 100% correct. DFA is bad at 120 because it’s much harder to land a kill and the time it takes to go up and come down is the difference between them getting an insta heal/ defensive. Control is king is probably THE single best talent at 120. Especially when I play PMR- it’s almost always up. 49 is just different. Tbh they are both good and you can have success using either or, I’ve just found more success with DFA.
 
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