90-99 in BfA?

Hello! I have a host of questions for the state of 90-99 in BfA:

1) What are the reasons for going with a particular level in the bracket? I see people's armories at 90, 91, and 99. Was this because of picking up a particular ability at 91? Did 90s stay for raid gear scaling? Can only 99s get the tertiary stat gear that @docturphil mentioned in this thread?

2) At what level do players get the artifact weapons, and how much impact do those weapons have now?

3) What are the new unknowns about the bracket with the advent of BfA?

I went looking through these forums, and wasn't able to find this info. I appreciate any insight you can provide!

99 was my favorite bracket through legion and i think i can answer a few of your questions.

for pvp reasons 99 was the best level. technically you could get your artifact weapon (1 choice) and the 4 pieces of legion quest gear from the pillars quests but at 98 you coudnt use crafted food/ flask buffs in battlegrounds.
the 4 pieces of legion gear and your artifact put you ahead of your average lever who may not even know they could start legion but if you wanted BIS you had to fill in your other slots with legion boe purples scaled to 99.

Kirise said:

Hello! I have a host of questions for the state of 90-99 in BfA:

1) What are the reasons for going with a particular level in the bracket? I see people's armories at 90, 91, and 99. Was this because of picking up a particular ability at 91? Did 90s stay for raid gear scaling? Can only 99s get the tertiary stat gear that @docturphil mentioned in this thread?

2) At what level do players get the artifact weapons, and how much impact do those weapons have now?

3) What are the new unknowns about the bracket with the advent of BfA?

I went looking through these forums, and wasn't able to find this info. I appreciate any insight you can provide!

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I think most people in the 99s bracket are from Legion. During Legion being a 99 twink was by far the most overpowered twink bracket for instance PvP. The reason for this was artifact weapons and access to high item level gear. During Legion they had a stat template system in instanced PvP which could be increased by a percentage if your average item level was over a certain threshold (which was removed in BfA). As a 99 with best in slot gear you could have up to a 15% stat boost which was pretty significant. Compare this to other brackets where you could only get maybe a 5% boost at most. In addition, at 98 you gained access to an artifact weapons which, if leveled up significantly, gave you a pretty big advantage. It was pretty easy to get 13 artifact traits and some of the most dedicated 99 twinks got to 24 traits. Maybe 25? I personally got 22 traits before the BfA patch hit. And each of these traits was sort of like a talent point from the old talent system. Unfortunately these traits are now disabled and no longer do anything. But the artifact weapon is still BiS for many classes/specs.

So that's the era that most of us 99 twinks came from who are still active. The 99 bracket is no longer the most overpowered twink bracket. From what I've heard the 59 and 69 brackets are quite overpowered. I personally only have experience with this bracket and the 89 bracket and I can tell you that those two brackets are about the same. But the 99 bracket is still good. Just not quite what it used to be.

As for 91s, I think they are a relic of the past at this point. 91s used to be good because they had access to a lot of Draenor gear which had that next expansion level stat boost. They could reach very high stats and secondary stats and so they were pretty good for PvE. I don't think they were ever that good for PvP, at least not instanced PvP.

Tertiary stats and rolling extra sockets was introduced in Warlords of Draenor. So I believe you'd have to be at least level 90 to get those stats. However, that gear is only BiS under very specific conditions. Depending on the slot, it would have to be item level 136 or lower. The reason for this is enchanting. Many gear slots can only be enchanted if the item level is 136 or less. This includes shoulders, chest, bracers, gloves, boots, and pants. Other slots that cannot be enchanted or that can be enchanted with higher level enchants you don't have to worry about item level. This includes trinkets, rings, necklace, cloak, helm, and belt. These could be above item level 136.

With that being established, now you'll need to get really really really lucky on your item roll. There is a really small chance that your item rolls a socket. There's also a really small chance you roll leech. There's a really really really really really small chance that you roll both. If you get both, and the item level requirements are met then you have yourself some best in slot gear.

Good luck farming a full set of this gear. It would take fooorrreeevveerrrr. But we can dream.

And again, level 98 is when you can get an artifact weapon.

Does that answer your questions?

it really depends on class .. i am not sure about other classes, but i play high ilvl pally, priest, shaman, mage at 101 and bdk at 109, it feels more OP than any of my lvl99 toons, and my lvl99 toons are all max BOE geared .. if you want to compare which bracket is the best, from my experience, using a single class to determine, i say it was the lvl69 during legion, it is the best bracket for blood dk .. at that time blood has a special mode, the so called god mode, even with god mode on, no other blood dk bracket feels as powerful as a lvl69 .. results taken from my experience of having blood dk in these lvls: 59, 60, 69, 79, 89, 90, 91, 99, 100, 101, 109, 110. all are having maxed out gears during legion except the 110. i dont play the 110 during legion so i dont know what it is like in a 110 bg.

docturphil said:

Does that answer your questions?

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Fantastic background, thank you! I appreciate your thoroughness, as I not familiar with the ins and outs of the upper brackets.

docturphil said:

Unfortunately these traits are now disabled and no longer do anything. But the artifact weapon is still BiS for many classes/specs.

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Is is still BiS due to the amount of stats the artifact weapon has i.e. could a lower level toon with a scaled socket weapon come close to the stats on the artifact weapon in instanced PvP?

docturphil said:

So that's the era that most of us 99 twinks came from who are still active. The 99 bracket is no longer the most overpowered twink bracket. From what I've heard the 59 and 69 brackets are quite overpowered.

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Having played in both in BfA, I find this true of the 59 bracket, but the 69 bracket surprised me. The deeper health pools compensate for some of the gear disparity.

docturphil said:

As for 91s, I think they are a relic of the past at this point. 91s used to be good because they had access to a lot of Draenor gear which had that next expansion level stat boost. They could reach very high stats and secondary stats and so they were pretty good for PvE. I don't think they were ever that good for PvP, at least not instanced PvP.

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That makes sense for previous expansions. I'm trying to figure out if the combination of up to three crafted WoD pieces and scalable gear for other slots will compete with gear obtainable at 98/99, which brings us to this:

docturphil said:

Tertiary stats and rolling extra sockets was introduced in Warlords of Draenor. So I believe you'd have to be at least level 90 to get those stats. However, that gear is only BiS under very specific conditions. Depending on the slot, it would have to be item level 136 or lower. The reason for this is enchanting. Many gear slots can only be enchanted if the item level is 136 or less. This includes shoulders, chest, bracers, gloves, boots, and pants. Other slots that cannot be enchanted or that can be enchanted with higher level enchants you don't have to worry about item level. This includes trinkets, rings, necklace, cloak, helm, and belt. These could be above item level 136.

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The enchantable gear threshold information is super helpful -- thank you!

I hadn't heard of random WoD greens dropping with sockets and tertiary stats until I saw your thread. Insane luck requirements notwithstanding, how many slots could find this gear to be BiS? I suppose that may vary by class.

If I decide to give this bracket a try, I want to determine if it's worth going to 98 or 99 to get the artifact weapon, or if staying 90 or 91 and getting super lucky drops will eventually land me the same or better (scaled) stats on the battlefield. I have a 90 with the legendary cape, so I get one chance to get this right.

Kirise said:

a scaled socket weapon

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Legion artifacts can get to about 160-162 ilvl with relics (at least mine are), I think draenor maxes out at like 140? 136?

The difference isn't gargantuan, but a weapon-damage twink might matter. Even legion BoE epic armors are only 151 or so.

Casters would probably be fine. Don't know for sure, just going from memory.

Kirise said:

That makes sense for previous expansions.

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Im sure you remember when gear scaled up with your level, and you could use anything from past expansions (legendaries, wonky items) and they scaled up with you... those were the times for 90-91, I believe. To take advantage of scaling up to 99. I dont remember precisely, but it was a blast!

And you know items don't scale anymore... right? instance PvP wise there is no reason to remain below cap. Only character level scales, nothing else.

Kirise said:

three crafted WoD pieces

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Crafted WoD was still BiS at 98-99 for non end-zone and non-epic BoE slots (like shoulders and wrists for mail/plate). Probably doesn't matter now tho. Such a small variance. The only reason I know of to remain 98 was PvE, because the monsters in legion had WAY less health at 98 then at 99, due to the new monster-level scaling, not gear.

So soloing dungeons for grinding AP or carrying levelers was easier at 98 than at 99.
[doublepost=1543909773,1543908879][/doublepost]If I remember right, the first boss in nelth's lair had 40% less health at 98 than at 99 for a while... and the BiS ilvl between 98 and 99 was almost identical. And the biggest advantage in PvP was artifact traits, and grinding AP to unlock them. So the faster/easier it was to farm AP the better. But now all that is completely irrelevant. Just pop some relics in and g2go.
[doublepost=1543910105][/doublepost]Heres a decent 98 compared to an exceptional 99 now, just for ilvl as they're different classes:

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/uldum/Boomstyk
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/uldum/Greef
[doublepost=1543910529][/doublepost]Also for comparison, that 98 DK had over 100% mastery back in legion I think... down to 65% now. Big difference.
[doublepost=1543933451][/doublepost]Also one last thing, apparently you can enchant your NEW artifact if you do it before you place any relics in it.

I think the initial ilvl is 152? That's the max for some enchants. I read this here, mine were all from legion.

Kirise said:

Is is still BiS due to the amount of stats the artifact weapon has i.e. could a lower level toon with a scaled socket weapon come close to the stats on the artifact weapon in instanced PvP?

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I don't think sockets/leech will be worth it for a weapon. And whether or not the artifact weapon is BiS depends on the class. I think two https://www.wowhead.com/item=78478/gurthalak-voice-of-the-deeps might be BiS for a fury warrior because of the proc. But it might also be a wash. I'm not really sure TBH.

Kirise said:

I hadn't heard of random WoD greens dropping with sockets and tertiary stats until I saw your thread. Insane luck requirements notwithstanding, how many slots could find this gear to be BiS? I suppose that may vary by class.

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Well you'll want a meta socket in your helmet. So a Siege or Orgrimmar helmet with max sockets and the socket bonus for your primary stat will be BiS unless you're an engineer in which case the item level 116 engineering helm with Cataclysm cogwheels will be BiS. But the point is you want that meta socket for https://www.wowhead.com/item=41400/thundering-skyflare-diamond if you do physical DPS and https://www.wowhead.com/item=25893/mystical-skyfire-diamond for caster DPS.

For most other slots I believe there is a chance to get a socket and leech. But again, the rarity is extreme. You'd be lucky to have more than one item with leech and a socket from farming for a very long time.

I have several Legion BoE epics which would be BiS if they had socket and leech. This includes my rings, necklace and cloak. In your case the legendary cloak is probably BiS, but this is of course unobtainable now.

Other than those you'd probably want item level 136 gear with leech and socket if you want to dedicate the next year of your life to farming them constantly.

Realistically you'll want SoO gear and/or a mix of item level 160 Legion quest blues if you're going for 99. The chest, belt and legs are on par with SoO gear. For bracers you can find any old item level 136 gear with your desired secondary stats and throw an enchant on them. These can probably be found on the AH pretty easily.

Kirise said:

If I decide to give this bracket a try, I want to determine if it's worth going to 98 or 99 to get the artifact weapon, or if staying 90 or 91 and getting super lucky drops will eventually land me the same or better (scaled) stats on the battlefield. I have a 90 with the legendary cape, so I get one chance to get this right.

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I'd say it depends on your goals. If you primarily want to participate in instanced PvP then leveling to 99 is definitely the way to go. If PvE is what you'll be focusing on then I'm not sure which is better.

Warglave said:

And you know items don't scale anymore... right? instance PvP wise there is no reason to remain below cap. Only character level scales, nothing else.

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Shoot, I did *not* know that. Thank you for the heads up. I figured that since I saw bigger stats when I got into a BG, my gear scaled. I forgot to check to see if the stats on the gear actually changed.

That prompted me to delve into the stat scaling on my 90, and I found that my primary stats (int, stam) go up 5.5%, while my secondary stats drop by about 14.7%. So far, my stat weight in terms of throughput is about 2:1 (int:secondaries). if it reached 2.7:1 then the numbers would offset and it would be a wash, but I don't see that happening, even at 91.

docturphil said:

I don't think sockets/leech will be worth it for a weapon. And whether or not the artifact weapon is BiS depends on the class.

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That makes sense. For my shammy, Kri'tak looked best since it could take both a Sha-touched gem (basically a cogwheel) and an additional gem slot, but it still won't surpass an artifact weapon at 99.

docturphil said:

Well you'll want a meta socket in your helmet. So a Siege or Orgrimmar helmet with max sockets and the socket bonus for your primary stat will be BiS unless you're an engineer in which case the item level 116 engineering helm with Cataclysm cogwheels will be BiS.

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Given how good that engineering trinket looks with the 3 cogwheel slots, looks like I got a long road of engineering leveling ahead of me.

docturphil said:

I'd say it depends on your goals. If you primarily want to participate in instanced PvP then leveling to 99 is definitely the way to go. If PvE is what you'll be focusing on then I'm not sure which is better.

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Instanced PvP is definitely my goal. I was hoping that with my SoO gear and some crafted items, the primary stat scaling at 91 would eclipse the loss of secondary stats, since I can get pretty close to what you and Warglave have on your 99s in terms of stats. But at this point, it looks like the secondary stat degradation is just too high.