Concerns regarding Twink Cup + Gearing

19s and competitive in the same sentence?

200.webp
 
Voc said:
19s and competitive in the same sentence?

200.webp
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you're garbage at everything

on topic I was thought of this myself in WoD but if we were to go by logic of 'outplay skill' we should make every single toon wear 0 pieces of gear and every class to be a certain race so therefore racials dont affect it etc etc

I disagree also looking at, there is a lot of theory crafting that goes into being actual BiS which literally 3 people in this bracket do.
Anyone should be allowed to use any item that was available to every 19 twink at a certain period without levelling up to higher levels being delevelled or exploited in any other way tricking GMs etc.
 
Deceptionsz said:
So something I've noticed is there's a damage difference between someone with really strong grandfathered gear/enchants. With BFA having no stat templates and grandfathered gear actually showing differences, what are some ways this can be avoided?

I haven't done any testing to back this so it's just number differences I've noticed in watching premades. I strongly think that the twink cup shouldn't be about who has the better gear, should be on what team can outplay the other team.

Granted if your team is good enough should be able to get the W regardless, but teams that have enchants such as +13 SP to bracers or having Inferno Robes, seem to have a decent number difference versus a team that doesn't have these items. (Mainly effecting healing output)

Also another thing I want to note is the hunter scope "Flintlocke's Woodchucker" giving a 70ish Agi proc. Making it so a geared hunter's Aimed Shot hits for 450 give or take, no shield. Line that up as double hunter and a boomkin and something is sure to melt quickly, if not instantly.

I feel like this 'damage only' meta is very poor for tournament and wargame game play. Kills should be coordinated not only by someone saying "go this target", but also with CC on the healer(s).

Just some thoughts after watching today's wargames, "CSF Vs. Mood". I'd like to hear your guy's thoughts as the players who participate in these wargames, as well as the spectators.
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https://xpoff.com/threads/the-official-twink-cup-2016-thread.67348/
if you go through this thread you'll see previously they have banned certain items (such as my head enchant from ZG) to make the play ground more equal
the gear problem is the same problem that was had in WoD but I assure you gearing makes a lot less difference than you might think when it comes to matching teams up against each other
 
Itsrealnow said:
At least four of the characters on my <CSF> roster were created and/or geared in the last two weeks. Nobody has Inferno Robe and only I have +13 sp to bracers. My 19 priest has existed since 2007 and it's a disservice to twinks to consider disallowing grandfathered gear. Do NFL teams ask their veteran pass rushers to dial it back when lining up against a young, inexperienced offensive line? Nah. There are enough twinks from BC and WotLK with plenty of grandfathered equipment-at least enough to warrant the acceptance of it.

The meta certainly is damage-oriented. It may have been hard to notice from the twich stream POV, but our rogue, mage and both priests were landing plenty of CC during our kill attempts. At one point, we had a sap into cheap shot into double fear on monk/disc that warranted a kill. <mood> is a new team with inexperienced players and it showed today. No disrespect toward them but their healer's positioning needs work. They had some solid burst windows on our mage and could have landed at least two kills on our FC with a little more patience and coordination. We certainly made mistakes, even though I have Talbar Mantle :)

Trill
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You do know they wear the same gear in the NFL right? Skill and experience are the only attributes allowed to differentiate teams.
 
While I agree some restrictions need to be made, I feel like spec/classes are the way to do it. As someone who has twinks with GF'ed gear, the issue isnt the small stat differences provided by gear/chants, its the skill base ALREADY. My 19 rogue WITHOUT GF'ed gear has a better record and better stats than my rogue with it. Its about playstyle, class knowledge, matchup knowledge, experience. I have yet to run into a twink with GF'ed gear that can't be punished when they make a mistake because their gear is too strong.
 
Grandfathered gear is not any sort of determining factor when it comes to winning or losing a Warsong, it just seems like all the people you get rolled by have it because they are nerds who have been playing 19s for many years. In the end it really does come down to game sense and team play.
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Voc said:
19s and competitive in the same sentence?

200.webp
Click to expand...

You are one the worst and least competitive players on the entire website, that's why you quit 19s.
 
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Pitter said:
Grandfathered gear is not any sort of determining factor when it comes to winning or losing a Warsong, it just seems like all the people you get rolled by have it because they are nerds who have been playing 19s for many years In the end it really does come down to game sense and team play.
[doublepost=1532917125,1532916995][/doublepost]

You are one the worst and least competitive players on the entire website, that's why you quit 19s.
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maybe I quit maybe I'll come back someday ;)
 
OP is clearly a non factor that can’t win without creating a meta that allows them to.

The game either allows it or doesn’t. As long you aren’t exploiting (things that can get you banned like flying above the bg or going to unreachable places), you do what you want. Don’t like non factors like this create the game they want. Play how you want and make people like this actually adapt and win.
 
Deceptionsz said:
So something I've noticed is there's a damage difference between someone with really strong grandfathered gear/enchants. With BFA having no stat templates and grandfathered gear actually showing differences, what are some ways this can be avoided?

I haven't done any testing to back this so it's just number differences I've noticed in watching premades. I strongly think that the twink cup shouldn't be about who has the better gear, should be on what team can outplay the other team.

Granted if your team is good enough should be able to get the W regardless, but teams that have enchants such as +13 SP to bracers or having Inferno Robes, seem to have a decent number difference versus a team that doesn't have these items. (Mainly effecting healing output)

Also another thing I want to note is the hunter scope "Flintlocke's Woodchucker" giving a 70ish Agi proc. Making it so a geared hunter's Aimed Shot hits for 450 give or take, no shield. Line that up as double hunter and a boomkin and something is sure to melt quickly, if not instantly.

I feel like this 'damage only' meta is very poor for tournament and wargame game play. Kills should be coordinated not only by someone saying "go this target", but also with CC on the healer(s).

Just some thoughts after watching today's wargames, "CSF Vs. Mood". I'd like to hear your guy's thoughts as the players who participate in these wargames, as well as the spectators.
Click to expand...

I personally think you should go watch some of the better series/games from previous twink cups rather than jump to conclusion after seeing Mood vs CSF, Mood is a new team with inexperienced players being tossed into a battleground full of experienced players.

I dont think anyone expected Mood to come out on top, but it takes practice in order to succeed and I hope they learned a lot from these games so huge thumbs up to Mood and CSF for making the premades happen yesterday no matter the outcome.
The bracket needs more of these types of guild vs guild premades in order for it to stay healthy.

On topic, if you take a look at the previous twink cups there has been gear restrictions for certain enchants such as the one @bolt has. However I do not think an Inferno robe, perhaps even 13 SP is gonna change the outcome of the games and I honestly do not think the grandfathered gear CSF mattered at all in the series yesterday, but pure experience did and I think exactly the same about the TCC vs GSC the other day, perhaps Mood and TCC against eachother could be a nice series for both the teams (Aint trying to bash at all but everyone starts at a place).
 
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I havent tried 19 in bfa so not sure how bursty it is but there are many ways to reduce it before resorting to banning GFd gear.

One example could be, only stamina enchants on gear others than weapons.
 
Goesid said:
I havent tried 19 in bfa so not sure how bursty it is but there are many ways to reduce it before resorting to banning GFd gear.

One example could be, only stamina enchants on gear others than weapons.
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People are just annoyed cus bad positioning(horrible usually) gets punished a lot compared to Legion. You see the difference on bad players a lot easier now
 
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