OP
OP
kratos
Xarbage
There might be a reason for that. :3
Consumables in a Premade
- Thread starter kratos
- Start date
There might be a reason for that. :3
Crit
OG
1. They are allowed in the gulch in this bracket by the only authority that matters. Blizzard.
2. A Premade vs. Premade should match up with what this bracket offers and what is seen in daily pickup groups. To try to make it into something it is not and never can be, including abilities that are not available till later, is impossible and a waste of time.
Anyone can get the gear, enchants and specs but will you truly be BiS if you don't learn how and when to use consumables? To fully experience and maximize the game at a level you need to employ and explore all of it.
To suggest it takes no skill to use consumables is to not know consumables. They have cool downs and best use strategies just like bandages or interrupts.
Someone tried the line about people who support consumable use can't play without them...laughable. The reverse can be said as well. I.e. People who are opposed to consumables in a Premade vs. Premade can't play with them. Neither is true. If you want to argue go with those style replies. If you want to have an open minded discussion you need to bring something more than dismissive and poorly thought out replies. Let the reader decide which is which.
Personally I want to play the game at this level for if I want to do Arena or RBG I would jump on one of my seven 85's or higher level twinks and do that. We often do. I enjoy this bracket for what it offers that is different.
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2. A Premade vs. Premade should match up with what this bracket offers and what is seen in daily pickup groups. To try to make it into something it is not and never can be, including abilities that are not available till later, is impossible and a waste of time.
Anyone can get the gear, enchants and specs but will you truly be BiS if you don't learn how and when to use consumables? To fully experience and maximize the game at a level you need to employ and explore all of it.
To suggest it takes no skill to use consumables is to not know consumables. They have cool downs and best use strategies just like bandages or interrupts.
Someone tried the line about people who support consumable use can't play without them...laughable. The reverse can be said as well. I.e. People who are opposed to consumables in a Premade vs. Premade can't play with them. Neither is true. If you want to argue go with those style replies. If you want to have an open minded discussion you need to bring something more than dismissive and poorly thought out replies. Let the reader decide which is which.
Personally I want to play the game at this level for if I want to do Arena or RBG I would jump on one of my seven 85's or higher level twinks and do that. We often do. I enjoy this bracket for what it offers that is different.
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verh
Legend
25 resist. Gotcha, didn't I?
Crit
OG
Don't know what you are talking about.
Concussive shot spam. Gotcha, didn't I?
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verh
Legend
Don't know what you are talking about.
Concussive shot spam. Gotcha, didn't I?
What does conc Shot have to do with 25 resist pots? :I
I seriously want to know what makes 25 resist pots add skill.
Honey Badger
OG
Lol alliance with 8-9 hunters . Metro said it best f2p hunters are like lvl 23.5
The f2p's do wargames with white gear and white vendor weapons at lvl 19 with no hunters allowed. Just fyi
The f2p's do wargames with white gear and white vendor weapons at lvl 19 with no hunters allowed. Just fyi
Honey Badger
OG
or a 11 man AB horde AP
Crit
OG
You are so rooted in your perspective you seriously are unable to see what should be obvious?
You asked so I will point out the obvious. Both Conclusive Shot and Minor Magic Resistance have Cool Downs that are shorter lived than the effect. Does spamming CS add skill? If not, are you looking to disallow it based on your litmus test? If so, MMR shares its CD with other potions (1 min) where CS has no such limitation. If it takes skill to use CS then it certainly takes skill to use MMR as there is more to consider as use of it impacts other choices.
The misconception of what is and is not skillful play is the problem combined with the over emphasis of individual play in a team game by many players.
skill [skil]
noun 1. the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well: Carpentry was one of his many skills.
2. competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity: The dancers performed with skill.
3. a craft, trade, or job requiring manual dexterity or special training in which a person has competence and experience: the skill of cabinetmaking.
http://m.dictionary.com/d/?q=skill&o=0&l=dir
The proper use of anything requires skill and the more things you have access to increases the amount of skill required. Planning too takes more skill when confronted with more variables. Based on your own litmus test and in light of what "skill" means using consumables adds more opportunity to display skill or the lack of it by way of more difficulty and more things to consider.
Consider your question answered. If you can't see it now you never will...
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OP
OP
kratos
Xarbage
Also Fire Protection Potion ! Two minute AGM against all hunter fire damage, with only a minute CD? You could pop this right out of the gate and engage in mid with CD reset, and a min of absorb.
Crit
OG
That is a great strategy...which takes skill by the way.
Do you not see the increased possibilities yet? More things possible means greater opportunity to skillfully plan and implement more complex play. More skill required is more challenging, right?
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OP
OP
kratos
Xarbage
It's a strategy that literally every premade would be using, which would just be limiting comps that would be used in competitive games. That's what most consumables are going to do in a premade, limit any diversity.
Minor Magical Resistance potions for example, hunters won't be survival, probably all go BM, to counteract the insane amount of fire resist and absorb there would be. Virtually no DPS casters would be ran; as of right now figure 12 resist from kings, most FCs have at least 5 resist from cloak, 8 arcane and 8 nature from rings, and 5 arcane from bracers. Not taking into account racial resist, That's at least 17 resist for fire, shadow, frost; nature resist at 25, and arcane resist is at 30. The 30 spell pen that is obtainable for casters as of right now, is barley enough to counteract the insane amount of resist that 24s have available to them, and adding 25 resist to every class would make running; survival hunters, mages, warlocks, balance druids, ele shamans, enhance shamans, and shadow priests almost entirely ineffective. Doesn't seem like the possibilites of having more CDs to pop, would justify losing so many possible classes/specs. Viable comps would only turn too melee cleaves, with double rogue, double BM hunter, and most likely warriors/ferals, with the ability to resist most slows, and FaP's to avoid any CC, and swiftness to close any gaps, there would be no reason not to.The level of complex play that is supposedly added by having consumables can't compensate for losing 11/27 of our class/spec combinations.
Minor Magical Resistance potions for example, hunters won't be survival, probably all go BM, to counteract the insane amount of fire resist and absorb there would be. Virtually no DPS casters would be ran; as of right now figure 12 resist from kings, most FCs have at least 5 resist from cloak, 8 arcane and 8 nature from rings, and 5 arcane from bracers. Not taking into account racial resist, That's at least 17 resist for fire, shadow, frost; nature resist at 25, and arcane resist is at 30. The 30 spell pen that is obtainable for casters as of right now, is barley enough to counteract the insane amount of resist that 24s have available to them, and adding 25 resist to every class would make running; survival hunters, mages, warlocks, balance druids, ele shamans, enhance shamans, and shadow priests almost entirely ineffective. Doesn't seem like the possibilites of having more CDs to pop, would justify losing so many possible classes/specs. Viable comps would only turn too melee cleaves, with double rogue, double BM hunter, and most likely warriors/ferals, with the ability to resist most slows, and FaP's to avoid any CC, and swiftness to close any gaps, there would be no reason not to.The level of complex play that is supposedly added by having consumables can't compensate for losing 11/27 of our class/spec combinations.
Last edited by a moderator:
Harder
Legend
Heya All,
I am for all consumables, no rules, bring it all I say.
I'm an alchemist/herbalist and I chose these skills to suit my build and play style.
The rules Kratos/Gay/Emo of Controlled Chaos impose disadvantage my chosen abilities.
If you wish to set the field of battle and stack it to advantage your 5 man's, then impose your rules and be bored.
If you wish to have fun grow some balls and accept the occasional loss, there is always a team composition that can beat another.
Also I would suggest that you do war games 5 v's 5 or 10 v's 10 or 15 v's 15 .... if you are all for fair and want a real battle try that out.
But I would suggest not trying to justify your motives of stacking the field of battle to advantage your 5 man with a thread in a forum. I mean Really ... come on we all see through this smoke screen. I suggest contacting blizzard and asking them for your rules to be imposed on the game .... tell me how that works out for you
The real reason why you have all these rules is your ego cant handle losing so to improve your odds of winning a battle you wish to impose rules to suit your guilds 5 players.
sooooo hard to work you out ... soooooo Harder
If you get Hard you have fun .... if you get Harder you have heaps of fun ....... so get Harder and come get some .....
I am for all consumables, no rules, bring it all I say.
I'm an alchemist/herbalist and I chose these skills to suit my build and play style.
The rules Kratos/Gay/Emo of Controlled Chaos impose disadvantage my chosen abilities.
If you wish to set the field of battle and stack it to advantage your 5 man's, then impose your rules and be bored.
If you wish to have fun grow some balls and accept the occasional loss, there is always a team composition that can beat another.
Also I would suggest that you do war games 5 v's 5 or 10 v's 10 or 15 v's 15 .... if you are all for fair and want a real battle try that out.
But I would suggest not trying to justify your motives of stacking the field of battle to advantage your 5 man with a thread in a forum. I mean Really ... come on we all see through this smoke screen. I suggest contacting blizzard and asking them for your rules to be imposed on the game .... tell me how that works out for you
The real reason why you have all these rules is your ego cant handle losing so to improve your odds of winning a battle you wish to impose rules to suit your guilds 5 players.
sooooo hard to work you out ... soooooo Harder
If you get Hard you have fun .... if you get Harder you have heaps of fun ....... so get Harder and come get some .....
Honey Badger
OG
" If you're working to make to make the playing field fair and level, you're working for the wrong reasons. Work to take the opportunities that arise and use your individual talents to excel at thoses opportunities "
verh
Legend
Since this seems to be the basis of your argument then its counter example time!
According to that then backpedaling while spamming conc and arcane shot takes more skill then juking.
Hitting one button and becoming immune to CC takes more skill then LoS.
Playing with just hunter/pallies/ferals and the occasional war takes more skill then a diverse comp that uses CC to get kills instead of tunneling.
Also, posting the definition of skill doesn't help your point because it takes more practice to juke, LoS and chain CC to get a kill then it does to hit a button and laugh as cc's cannot touch you and you resist the barrage of counterspells and windshears.
Crit
OG
Obviously you have never played with consumables in a premade. Your assumptions are quite wrong. You should try one but you would risk losing. Seems control is extremely important to you. You can't control chaos.
I am here all week. Well, maybe.
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OP
OP
kratos
Xarbage
Please explain then how consumables wouldn't kill off 11/27 of possible class/spec combinations, saying I'm scarred of losing and then offering up no feasible information regarding the actual discussion at hand hardly accomplishes anything.
OP
OP
kratos
Xarbage
Heya All,
I am for all consumables, no rules, bring it all I say.
I'm an alchemist/herbalist and I chose these skills to suit my build and play style.
The rules Kratos/Gay/Emo of Controlled Chaos impose disadvantage my chosen abilities.
If you wish to set the field of battle and stack it to advantage your 5 man's, then impose your rules and be bored.
If you wish to have fun grow some balls and accept the occasional loss, there is always a team composition that can beat another.
Also I would suggest that you do war games 5 v's 5 or 10 v's 10 or 15 v's 15 .... if you are all for fair and want a real battle try that out.
But I would suggest not trying to justify your motives of stacking the field of battle to advantage your 5 man with a thread in a forum. I mean Really ... come on we all see through this smoke screen. I suggest contacting blizzard and asking them for your rules to be imposed on the game .... tell me how that works out for you
The real reason why you have all these rules is your ego cant handle losing so to improve your odds of winning a battle you wish to impose rules to suit your guilds 5 players.
sooooo hard to work you out ... soooooo Harder
If you get Hard you have fun .... if you get Harder you have heaps of fun ....... so get Harder and come get some .....
Thank you for an interesting and on topic post, welcome to Twinkinformation!
Crit
OG
Ah, you twist my point and ignore the relevant aspects of it. Hope you did not hope to win me over with that. I gave you an honest open hearted answer and you give me that along with embellished and exaggerated spin.
I get it. You are not open to a different conclusion even though you ask questions. That is disingenuous. Apparently only what you want to learn and practice is "skill" to you.
The point is skill is not exclusive to what you say it is. I posted the definition so that you and others can't continue with any validity dismissing various things that you do not want to play with and against under the guise of it "takes no skill".
So, we get it. You don't want to play with some consumables. Your spin as to why is what I am debating and debunking for any reasonable readers to follow.
As for me and Horde Invasion (now 120, 24s) we are looking for fun. It is not fun to spend a lot of time in negotiations over rules for a game that already has rules. Nor is it fun or wise to play with people who need so desperately to win they are willing to.
We won't be premading with guilds with that mindset on their terms. Send me a private message and I will help you find a guild that will say they will...but I warn you they are as dodgy as you are.
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