EU+US 101 DH Twink Help

[Zaden]

I recently got into twinking and have started out with my DH. I have the Havoc artifact, which I'm not sure is the best spec.

Here's my armory link - https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/outland/zaden

As a tank I don't die, but my DPS sucks and and as a Havoc, my DPS is still quite low but mobs do kill me. Is there something I need to change or are DHs just bad? My friend said he's been boosted by a Havoc DH before and he was awesome. I don't have many traits just yet in my Havoc Artifact but not sure if it makes a big difference. I have no leech armor as I can't find any on the AH, but some people are saying it's not necessary?

Any help or advice is appreciated.

 

[Holythane]

fairs my g

say no more

 

[Zaden]

Added it back in, a Mod/Admin can pick which one they want to delete lol.

 

[Tuskbreaker]

Level to 102. More info at https://xpoff.com/threads/dont-make-a-102.72641/, https://xpoff.com/threads/havoc-101-102.71993/

 

[MyPerfection]

which I'm not sure is the best spec.

If you don't want a maximized runspeed character (Havoc @ 101) a Demon Hunter will always perform better @ 102. This was my first response after leveling to 102:

Holy mother of smokes.

I AM SO GLAD I DID THAT!

a) With the additional talent both specs feel so much better now.
b) Having my artifact weapon back as vengeance is just great.
c) Killed some stuff open world and everything died instant as before.
d) Here comes a biggy: THE MOBS IN A DUNGEON ARE NOT STRONGER THAN BEFORE. It is the opposite, I can kill them faster now because I do more damage. They have the same health as they had as 101. I've just soloed the Trash in NL and it was smoother on my Havoc than before. Festerhide Grizzly has 2.9mio HP. The other Elite ~1.7mio and the birds 1.2mio. Just like they had when I was 101. And yes I reset the dungeon and stuff. Went back, killed Archdruid Glaidalis (13.2mio HP) with ease.
e) Don't forget to turn off your xp at 102 again. I was already 25% into 103 when I saw that. *g
f) Yes, I've lost movement speed. But only a bit and I can totally live with that. Normal Gear down from 156% to 151%. Speed Gear down from 202% to 193%.

As a tank I don't die, but my DPS sucks

This will always be the case because you are a tank. Simple as that.

and as a Havoc, my DPS is still quite low but mobs do kill me.

Can you go more into detail because that shouldn't happen. Havoc DPS is okay-ish and there survival quite good, especially if you can pull some "smaller" (or AoE) mobs. Each Soul Fragment heals you for 25% of your health pool and this is the main reason why we don't need leech (or way less than others). And Meta gives you +30% Leech too.

For talents I would use these for overall playstyle (change them situational if needed / wanted):
Vengeance - Abyssal Strike (for non-flying areas) | Agonizing Flames for AoE (one of them for everything else normally) --- Fallout --- All 3 are viable, depending on what you are doing. It's up to you. I like Flame Crash the most.

Havoc - Felblade (99% of all times, Fel Mastery for some special AoE thingies) --- Demon Blades (always) --- Bloodlet (most of the time, First Blood for Single Target or some 2 Target fights)

This was my setup.

 

[Soloing]

First of all, your cloth waist is definitely a dps loss when all of your other pieces are leather. Anwyay, what do you consider to be bad dps?

In my experience they are alright. Unfortunately their ST dps is mediocre without meta up (which won't be available at every boss fight), but with meta up I can't complain. Havocs may not shine in ST, but they do have awesome mobility, AoE and self healing. A bit of leech never hurts, but with the frequent Soul Fragment heals it's mostly overkill. And I'm not sure if you have the Feast on the Souls trait yet, but it's amazing with large pulls.

I would absolutely not recommend leveling up to 102, unless you desperately want the vengeance artifact weapon too. At 102 you do a little more ST damage, but the loss of burst AoE damage, survivablity and mobility just isn't worth it. And in legion content mobs will have a lot more health at 102, so your ST kill time would hardly be shorter.

Also, it's a good idea to have at least 2 different gear sets. 1 for boss fights, and 1 for trash. Crit is fantastic for ST, but absolutely useless when eye beaming down trash.

If you don't want a maximized runspeed character (Havoc @ 101) a Demon Hunter will always perform better @ 102.

That is just not true.

 

[MyPerfection]

And in legion content mobs will have a lot more health at 102, so your ST kill time would hardly be shorter.

Nope.

That is just not true.

It is. I've tested and played a lot on demon hunters. Had 2 @ 101, 2 @ 102 and 2 @ 110 (6 different chars). As a twink and being a Demon Hunter there are 3 Levels which are useful:
101 - Havoc Runspeed
109 - Vengeance and Havoc for Instanced PvP
102 - Vengeance and Havoc for everything else

 

[Soloing]

Nope.
It is. I've tested and played a lot on demon hunters. Had 2 @ 101, 2 @ 102 and 2 @ 110 (6 different chars). As a twink and being a Demon Hunter there are 3 Levels which are useful:
101 - Havoc Runspeed
109 - Vengeance and Havoc for Instanced PvP
102 - Vengeance and Havoc for everything else

I'll screenshot the hp gain in a moment. But even without the hp gain it just doesn't make sense outside of ST or very small pulls. Talking about Havoc only btw. No idea about vengeance.

 

[Zaden]

First of all, your cloth waist is definitely a dps loss when all of your other pieces are leather. Anwyay, what do you consider to be bad dps?

Yeah I definitely need to change that later on today, it was actually me being stupid and not looking at what I was buying!

I'm not sure if you have the Feast on the Souls trait yet, but it's amazing with large pulls.

I don't have it yet but I'm going to work on the traits and see how it goes.

I would absolutely not recommend leveling up to 102, unless you desperately want the vengeance artifact weapon too. At 102 you do a little more ST damage, but the loss of burst AoE damage, survivablity and mobility just isn't worth it. And in legion content mobs will have a lot more health at 102, so your ST kill time would hardly be shorter.

This is where I'm seeing different point of views. In MyPerfections other post, he claims it has very similar dps and that the health pools of mobs are the same.

 

[MyPerfection]

it just doesn't make sense outside of ST or very small pulls. Talking about Havoc only btw. No idea about vengeance.

Here are some sims for https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/lightnings-blade/kundur:

---

Level 101

ST - 10sec - 650k dps
ST - 30sec - 571k dps
ST - 100sec - 357k dps

4T - 10sec - 1.12m dps
4T - 30sec - 803k dps
4T - 100sec - 525k dps

20T - 10sec - 4.68m dps
20T - 30sec - 3.02m dps
20T - 100sec - 1.94m dps

Level 102 with First Blood

ST - 10sec - 632k dps
ST - 30sec - 562k dps
ST - 100sec - 347k dps

4T - 10sec - 1.19m dps
4T - 30sec - 901k dps
4T - 100sec - 579k dps

20T - 10sec - 4.50m dps
20T - 30sec - 3.03m dps
20T - 100sec - 1.94m dps

As you can see the dps performance overall is kinda identical. Multi Target is better. You have a larger health pool and with Bloodlet a tool to kite and / or DoT. You are stronger in iPvP and wPvP. Bloodlet alone is worth it.

I don't see a single scenario what a 101 can do and a 102 can't. Except for running faster. And all this is only for Havoc. Having your vengeance artifact weapon increases the tank performance by a lot.

 

[Zaden]

Here are some sims for https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/lightnings-blade/kundur:

---

Level 101

ST - 10sec - 650k dps
ST - 30sec - 571k dps
ST - 100sec - 357k dps

4T - 10sec - 1.12m dps
4T - 30sec - 803k dps
4T - 100sec - 525k dps

20T - 10sec - 4.68m dps
20T - 30sec - 3.02m dps
20T - 100sec - 1.94m dps

Level 102 with First Blood

ST - 10sec - 632k dps
ST - 30sec - 562k dps
ST - 100sec - 347k dps

4T - 10sec - 1.19m dps
4T - 30sec - 901k dps
4T - 100sec - 579k dps

20T - 10sec - 4.50m dps
20T - 30sec - 3.03m dps
20T - 100sec - 1.94m dps

As you can see the dps performance overall is kinda identical. Multi Target is better. You have a larger health pool and with Bloodlet a tool to kite and / or DoT. You are stronger in iPvP and wPvP. Bloodlet alone is worth it.

I don't see a single scenario what a 101 can do and a 102 can't. Except for running faster.

Thanks for posting the numbers. I guess 102 would also help with Veng by getting the Artifact + traits too.

Anyone else able to give some input please? I'm interested to see what you all think. I mainly just want to dungeon boost as quickly as possible. 101 vs 102 + veng vs havoc.

 

[Soloing]

Those sims are even worse than I thought tbh. I expected ST at 102 to be higher. And the multi target ones aren't realistic at all, especially for legion content.

HP difference
101: http://imgur.com/a/1jVXy
102: http://imgur.com/a/4DUl3

 

[Zaden]

Those sims are even worse than I thought tbh. I expected ST at 102 to be higher. And the multi target ones aren't realistic at all, especially for legion content.

HP difference
101: http://imgur.com/a/1jVXy
102: http://imgur.com/a/4DUl3

Seems like quite a big HP difference TBH and if the DPS pretty much stays the same, then it doesn't seem worth to level to 102 surely? Also you lose run speed right as Havoc right?

 

[MyPerfection]

And the multi target ones aren't realistic at all, especially for legion content.

They are.

HP difference
101: http://imgur.com/a/1jVXy
102: http://imgur.com/a/4DUl3

What Item Level have both characters? Is this looks like now then they changed it. As I posted in a different thread a while ago, the HP didn't change back then.

IF the item level is the same for 101 and 102 and the difference that high than I would recommend staying 101 if you do Legion PvE most of the time.

Also you lose run speed right as Havoc right?

Right. I had 202% passive at 101 and 193% at 102.

 

[Zaden]

They are.

What Item Level have both characters? Is this looks like now then they changed it. As I posted in a different thread a while ago, the HP didn't change back then.

IF the item level is the same for 101 and 102 and the difference that high than I would recommend staying 101 if you do Legion PvE most of the time.


Right. I had 202% passive at 101 and 193% at 102.

Thank you guys, based on the comments I'll give 101 a chance. I'll get the Havoc traits, replace my cloth piece and try to see if I can get some leech pieces for extra survivability. Do people stack mastery for the run speed?

 

[MyPerfection]

Do people stack mastery for the run speed?

Yes. DPS-wise it is the worst stat but that doesn't matter really. And movement speed is sexy.

Get the engineering helmet with full mastery or mastery+x (The 725 version is way better than all 730+ leather pieces available. They have way more 2nd stats than an item normally has.) and you get nitro boosts. For trinkets try to get the kazzak ones and as an alternative stone of the elements or 725 prophecy tarot. Eya is only okay-ish for burst and crap for everything else. Gloves and Belt the 800 quest items. Enchant your shoulders with something for some extra gold. If you have a 110 char with rep get the bloodseeker enchant for your next shoulders. And use both mastery rings. The one from dalaran and the mastery boe.

 

[Soloing]

They are.

No they aren't, mobs die way too fast for that. Same with Bloodlet. Fel Rush and constant Eye Beam resets are all you need for large pulls, and both are weaker at 102. You only use Blade Dance/First Blood if Fel Rush and Eye Beam are on cooldown, or when you want to save them for a larger pack, in which case Chaos Strike will do just fine, especially considering you almost never run out of fury.

What Item Level have both characters? Is this looks like now then they changed it. As I posted in a different thread a while ago, the HP didn't change back then.

IF the item level is the same for 101 and 102 and the difference that high than I would recommend staying 101 if you do Legion PvE most of the time.

Both below 850, with my shammy having a higher ivl than my DH. Would you mind testing it again on your char, just to be sure?

Yes. DPS-wise it is the worst stat but that doesn't matter really. And movement speed is sexy.

Get the engineering helmet with full mastery or mastery+x (The 725 version is way better than all 730+ leather pieces available. They have way more 2nd stats than an item normally has.) and you get nitro boosts. For trinkets try to get the kazzak ones and as an alternative stone of the elements or 725 prophecy tarot. Eya is only okay-ish for burst and crap for everything else. Gloves and Belt the 800 quest items. Enchant your shoulders with something for some extra gold. If you have a 110 char with rep get the bloodseeker enchant for your next shoulders. And use both mastery rings. The one from dalaran and the mastery boe.

Yeah the engineering helm is great indeed. And at 101 mastery is much stronger than at 102, especially for AoE.

 

[Hiroitchi]

I rather enjoy 101 than 102, epscially with the gear I have. The way I tested the difference is I took my 101 to the PTR realm and level it to 102. I figure its a safer way to test my current build of my Havoc spec DH. I feel as though in my honest opinion, being Havoc DH is way more gear dependent than other Twinks. I now have three sets, one that is for mastery and the other is for crit. I mainly use the soul capacitor for world pve farming and invasions. I hope that suggestion helps with your toon going forth from 101 to 102.

 

[MyPerfection]

And at 101 mastery is much stronger than at 102,

Every 2nd stat is stronger at 101 than at 102, this is called rating conversion.

I have now have three sets, one that is for mastery and the other is for crit.

I have 3, 1 and 2. :sorry:

 

[Soloing]

Every 2nd stat is stronger at 101 than at 102, this is called rating conversion.

What I meant was that both Bloodlet and First Blood do not benefit from mastery, decreasing its value at 102.