EU+US Absolutely absurd predictions that I think might actually happen

[Allybeboba]

I had graduated college, so...

But I didnt hit 60 until the first week of BC (that expac was my shit) so I didnt get to experience end game Vanilla. Which I'd like to. I'd like to see original Naxx. I'd like to actually have to attune for Molten Core and do the AQ gate opening quests. Stuff I've only heard about. I get the desire to go back and see that, if only to see just how far things have come.

I have no delusions that it would be as fun as WoW is now and (as much as @Walrusbreath likes to complain ) it is pretty fun. At least down here at 20.

How nice for you that you were old enough to have graduated college in 2005. That is why stated "some of the players" as opposed to all. One would think a person that "graduated college"(your words, not mine) approximately ten ago would have noticed that, so...

The AQ quest line was around well into Wrath of Lich King. MC may have been available in tBC. I don't recall, I did both so long ago. I remember them being available on a couple of my alt accounts whilst gearing my main account up.

There are have been hundreds, if not thousands, of private servers that offer a "Blizzard like" Vanilla experience. Kronos is just one example. Many( not all ) players just play on them for a short time. Certainly, there are a myriad of reasons for this, least of which is because it did not meet the player's expectations and it, to be quite frank, leveling in Vanilla took a long long time and gold was in short supply.

 

[AlisterCrow]

They will either cut down on the RNG in the future or it will spread to other, older parts of the game. Watcher has stated that the leveling experience needs work.....I just hope that "work" doesn't equate to the RNG/gated everything that end-game has become.

This thread is not about whether Vanilla was good or not.

 

[Dabow]

I predict Blizzard dont give a f***.

 

[Chops]

There are have been hundreds, if not thousands, of private servers that offer a "Blizzard like" Vanilla experience. Kronos is just one example. Many( not all ) players just play on them for a short time. Certainly, there are a myriad of reasons for this, least of which is because it did not meet the player's expectations and it, to be quite frank, leveling in Vanilla took a long long time and gold was in short supply.

Yea, i imagine there'd be an initial interest in an actual blizzard sanctioned vanilla server but i can't imagine it lasting long.

I guess the idea i was trying to get at was that i feel like i missed out on some of the history. But then, there's no way I'd recapture that on a throwback server anyway.

They will either cut down on the RNG in the future or it will spread to other, older parts of the game. Watcher has stated that the leveling experience needs work.....I just hope that "work" doesn't equate to the RNG/gated everything that end-game has become.

When you say RNG/gated in the leveling experience, what do you mean? I haven't played end game since BC so i have no idea what's going on.

This thread is not about whether Vanilla was good or not.

Eh, that's not what's really being discussed anyway. You're watching a very special snowflake try to convince everyone that their particular experience is the definitive experience.

 

[AlisterCrow]

When you say RNG/gated in the leveling experience, what do you mean? I haven't played end game since BC so i have no idea what's going on.

Here's a few things I noticed: You give your food to an NPC instead of cooking it yourself to level cooking. Most of the time he will take your food and turn it into http://www.wowhead.com/item=133913/badly-burnt-food . If you feel like swapping specs at any point you have to do a quest to get another artifact weapon and then grind artifact power to unlock artifact traits for the weapon. You also need to find decent relics for your weapon which rarely dropped from anything other than world quests. Relics for artifact weapons are not the old relics that used to go next to your weapons and was just an equipment slot to fill; they are now things you put into your artifact weapon that boost it's item level and boosts certain artifact traits. Gear from pvp is randomly awarded after a BG is over and there is no currency for purchasing gear anymore. gear can also proc to have a socket, tertiary stats, warforge and titanforge. There's quest-givers in a place called Surumar that are basically knock-offs of mana-addicted Belfs in BC story-wise. In order to do their quest though, you have to give them ancient mana which they are addicted to. There's more too, but I'm tired of listing them already.

They added so many dungeons and implemented a system where those dungeons can increase in difficulty. They seem to be adding more regular content with raids and dungeons and a few new arena maps (they don't care about BGs this expansion). It doesn't make sense to me that they would add so many RNG and gated systems to the game just for the sake of keeping players subbed longer if they have enough content planned for future patches. I can only guess that we'll see the 2nd raid tier close to next summer and expect a year long content drought with the RNG-fest to keep people chasing loot.

 

[Cigarette]

I think everyone who's asking for vanilla servers just secretly wants something to complain about.

If blizzard does a good job and fixes all the bugs you'll complain because the overall gameplay isn't as great as you thought you remembered it being. If blizzard gave a true identical bug-included version of what nilla really was like you'd complain because blizzard didn't take the opportunity to revamp and fix everything you didn't like about it.

it's, like, the PERFECT scenario for a complainer. Doesn't matter what blizz does it will irk SOMEONE

 

[Holythane]

I get both the blizzard is money now argument and WoW was revolutionary argument, but for me, who joined in Cata, I just want to experience making a F2P in vanilla reality

Edit: how would be Vanilla F2Ps different to nowadays F2P? Except no mounts

For pvp there would be no scaling so you would be playing vs players up to level 29

 

[Chops]

They added so many dungeons and implemented a system where those dungeons can increase in difficulty. They seem to be adding more regular content with raids and dungeons and a few new arena maps (they don't care about BGs this expansion). It doesn't make sense to me that they would add so many RNG and gated systems to the game just for the sake of keeping players subbed longer if they have enough content planned for future patches. I can only guess that we'll see the 2nd raid tier close to next summer and expect a year long content drought with the RNG-fest to keep people chasing loot.

All of that sounds like a pretty mixed bag (I really like the idea behind artifact weapons). They've always gated loot/quests behind other requirements. I mean, at least we dont have to spend a week getting attuned for Kara or Black Temple. Though RNG on loot configuration bothers me. At least when you ground out rep for a piece of gear, you knew exactly what you were getting at the end of that grind.

But when this gets mentioned in conjunction with the current leveling system "needing work" I actually get pretty excited. Consider that the current leveling "system" (if you can call it that) is create toon>put on looms>level to 15>grind dungeons to 100. You never even need to leave a capital city. If they change that up to encourage people to move out into the world, we benefit.

 

[Crystalpall]

For pvp there would be no scaling so you would be playing vs players up to level 29

Yea, but it would be mostly levelers right? Or now that I think about it you had to go to battlemasters to queue so maybe mostly twinks. 20-29 had WSG only?

 

[Holythane]

Yea, but it would be mostly levelers right? Or now that I think about it you had to go to battlemasters to queue so maybe mostly twinks. 20-29 had WSG only?

WSG and AB I believe and ye as you had to go to battlemasters there would most likely be a decent amount of twinks, there was also battlegroups so i suppose that would affect bgs unless they scrapped that system with "legacy" servers.

 

[Walrusbreath]

I have no delusions that it would be as fun as WoW is now and (as much as @Walrusbreath likes to complain ) it is pretty fun. At least down here at 20.

Sure, we can still get some fun from twinking (I guess?), but the game is far from what it was in its heyday especially at end-game PvP. What I've said isn't complaining. It's getting at the root which is Blizz milking it for max profit every way they can, for the reasons stated. They just do it incrementally so people get used to it over time, then send out their PR team to convince you it's for other reasons and those reasons are good.

It's not because "Blizz is lazy", a pretty ignorant meme considering that they're not just sitting on their hands when we've seen all the things they've changed - that benefits Blizz in the long run. It's not from laziness that Holinka only posts on Twitter fairly rarely and not on Blizz forums, or they hardly responded during alpha/beta for months. It's because he & Blizz don't have acceptable, plausible answers for their shitty design.

Examples: WoD and RNG trinkets led to all RNG in Legion. Always OP specs (atm SV, Disc, Ret) but not to worry...we have "omg TEMPLATES!1!" now. Except 7.1 will be yet another round of OP specs (likely SV, Outlaw, Boomy). Doing effectively nothing about cheaters/scripters for years, yet in titles like OW they perma-ban because that's not a sub-based game. Ladder collapse that Rated is having now because so many have quit RBG & arena since Legion or just stayed away. There are 100 other examples.

 

[Chops]

Sure, we can still get some fun from twinking (I guess?), but the game is far from what it was in its heyday especially at end-game PvP. What I've said isn't complaining. It's getting at the root which is Blizz milking it for max profit every way they can, for the reasons stated.

I was just poking at you, man.

But ironically enough, with an eye towards profit margins Blizz may end up making changes that positively impact the experience of non paying accounts.

 

[Walrusbreath]

I was just poking at you, man.

But ironically enough, with an eye towards profit margins Blizz may end up making changes that positively impact the experience of non paying accounts.

Perhaps. I doubt it would last long though before they do something else to counter it. They really don't like F2Ps.

 

[Walrusbreath]

They added so many dungeons and implemented a system where those dungeons can increase in difficulty. They seem to be adding more regular content with raids and dungeons and a few new arena maps (they don't care about BGs this expansion). It doesn't make sense to me that they would add so many RNG and gated systems to the game just for the sake of keeping players subbed longer if they have enough content planned for future patches. I can only guess that we'll see the 2nd raid tier close to next summer and expect a year long content drought with the RNG-fest to keep people chasing loot.

What part of it doesn't make sense, including the AP/wep grind, when it's far easier/faster to gear up in PvE than PvP - basically forcing PvP'ers to PvE? It's the opposite of what you're saying because the 'future planned content' will be mostly PvE, not PvP, so they save overhead there while causing longer grinds - a win-win for Blizz.

A few maps are 3+ years old while most of them are 5-10 years old, and only 2 new arenas. Ten years of playing the same fcking maps, especially lvl 20 or lower just having 4 of the oldest BGs? There's no legitimate excuse for that. By now we should have 15-20 maps in both formats.

Many PvP'ers could not care less about new PvE content. That's not their chosen area of the game, nor do they like being forced to run it, any more than I should have to run dungeons & raids on my max enchanter to earn again, for example, the wep illusions that I've already earned.

 

[Chops]

Perhaps. I doubt it would last long though before they do something else to counter it. They really don't like F2Ps.

I honestly dont think they even give us a second thought. That's why I think we'll see stuff like vanilla zones scaling by level. They'll be sitting in some meeting brainstorming ways to make the leveling process more attractive and someone will bring it up, someone else will say its a good idea and an xpac later, it'll happen. Nobody is gonna sit there and go "man, you know those like, 200 folks who take our trial accounts super seriously? This will REALLY give them a lot of cool stuff. Better not do it"

 

[Walrusbreath]

I'm sure it's more than a couple hundred F2Ps, but at any rate F2P could become more important as more people quit PvP or unsub at higher levels (which they've been doing), in which case it's not to their profit interests to make F2P more appealing. I also know there are a lot of people subbed still only because they bought lots of tokens when the getting was good. When those run out they'll be unsubbed.

 

[AlisterCrow]

What part of it doesn't make sense, including the AP/wep grind, when it's far easier/faster to gear up in PvE than PvP - basically forcing PvP'ers to PvE?

If they really do plan to add enough content for players to do, that should be enough on it's own IMO. They shouldn't need to add extra ways to keep players chasing loot. It's not a "win-win" for them when they start bleeding subs like crazy. It's better to put out a quality product and establish a relationship based on trust then it is to just trick people into paying for a product that's not what it's cracked up to be. Sadly, a lot of businesses are going for the quick cash-grab with a shitty product instead of the aforementioned method involving a great product and good relationship with the customer these days. It's not a sustainable way to make money in the long run.

 

[Allybeboba]

Here's a few things I noticed: You give your food to an NPC instead of cooking it yourself to level cooking. Most of the time he will take your food and turn it into http://www.wowhead.com/item=133913/badly-burnt-food . If you feel like swapping specs at any point you have to do a quest to get another artifact weapon and then grind artifact power to unlock artifact traits for the weapon. You also need to find decent relics for your weapon which rarely dropped from anything other than world quests. Relics for artifact weapons are not the old relics that used to go next to your weapons and was just an equipment slot to fill; they are now things you put into your artifact weapon that boost it's item level and boosts certain artifact traits. Gear from pvp is randomly awarded after a BG is over and there is no currency for purchasing gear anymore. gear can also proc to have a socket, tertiary stats, warforge and titanforge. There's quest-givers in a place called Surumar that are basically knock-offs of mana-addicted Belfs in BC story-wise. In order to do their quest though, you have to give them ancient mana which they are addicted to. There's more too, but I'm tired of listing them already.

They added so many dungeons and implemented a system where those dungeons can increase in difficulty. They seem to be adding more regular content with raids and dungeons and a few new arena maps (they don't care about BGs this expansion). It doesn't make sense to me that they would add so many RNG and gated systems to the game just for the sake of keeping players subbed longer if they have enough content planned for future patches. I can only guess that we'll see the 2nd raid tier close to next summer and expect a year long content drought with the RNG-fest to keep people chasing loot.

I STILL have not maxed out any of my professions except fishing. Cooking and First Aid really could have easily been done by now if I had bother to go to SW and done the dailies there but I really seen no benefit in doing it at the moment.
Blizzard, in my opinion really messed up with professions this go-round. I had no problem with doing a daily CD and then picking and choosing the recipes I wanted. Or even working on a particular rep for a favorite recipe we wanted the most first for my primary professions.
And PvP... Oh lawd!! We won't even go there.

 

[Walrusbreath]

If they really do plan to add enough content for players to do, that should be enough on it's own IMO. They shouldn't need to add extra ways to keep players chasing loot. It's not a "win-win" for them when they start bleeding subs like crazy. It's better to put out a quality product and establish a relationship based on trust then it is to just trick people into paying for a product that's not what it's cracked up to be. Sadly, a lot of businesses are going for the quick cash-grab with a shitty product instead of the aforementioned method involving a great product and good relationship with the customer these days. It's not a sustainable way to make money in the long run.

Yes, but isn't that what they've done with WoD and now Legion? Apparently they don't care much about losing PvP'ers -- and/or they've been dumbing down the game by pruning abilities for some time trying to keep casuals, and by RNG, claiming "gear doesn't matter" (when it actually still does), and forced PvE.

At the other end are the no-lifers and serial cheaters that spend a lot more on the game per player than several mid/highish ranked players would that have quit. I think they're taking a calculated risk in assuming those players will simply buy OW or HotS for PvP - many have in fact and you can see the exodus from WoW in the ladder collapse right now:

Post #96 of this thread (which I also posted in):

"...We know that the game lost a lot of subs. But that gives you some perspective as to how much was lost - we are at 60% of MoP numbers now. And it shows how much the great attempts from Blizzard to make PVP friendlier to everyone helped - they haven't helped, in fact, they probably made things worse,... So, things are indeed, pretty bad. Both long-term and short-term. ..."

IOW, when you're losing the base of the pyramid where 80% of the players are, you have serious issues with your game design. Now Blizz will throw a bone to those PvP'ers by giving more rewards for PvP in 7.1 as announced, but it will probably be too little too late. It's what they always do -- push people to see what their limits are to maximize profits, and only when they start losing subs do they revert back to a point where subs stop hemorrhaging.

 

[Chops]

Silver lining moment (ANOTHER ABSURD PREDICTION THAT I THINK WILL ACTUALLY HAPPEN!)

If the game keeps bleeding subs, eventually it will get small enough that it ends up getting sidelined in favor of games with a larger draw (IE Overwatch). Blizzard will shift it over to developers with a mandate to build towards community rather than sub numbers because they'll recognize that the games run its course. So we'll get a game that appeals to players that enjoy that SPECIFIC game rather than gamers looking to play the next big thing in order to boost their twitch numbers.